CMR2 Recce Thread: Argentina and Jordan

[tannat]

A fotuitous schedule is in front of us with the next two rallies held using the same stages (Argentina-Australia Mirrored and Jordan-Australia). This means all the practice you do now will serve you for all rallies through the end of April! :up:


These are some challenging stages, grip is low (perhaps as low as the Kenya stages) and the stages vary in run off area. More often than not you're headed for the trees! Personally, I feel a good approach to these stages is one similar to Kenya-tight and neat rather than loose. Definitely better to be safe than sorry at this venue.

The good news is that 2 stages are repeated in reverse form (SS4 and SS7 Ellendale, and SS5 and SS8 Billuna). If you can keep your head straight this can work to your advantage in knowing the corners.

...and yes-it does rain in Australia... :)

I'll try to post some precise stage descriptions. Have fun....

Tannat

[pettersolberg29]

I'm confused as I keep getting contrasting info!

Last week I was told Argentina is Australia, and Jordan is Australia Mirrored, and now its the other way around, as I was told about 2 months ago!

Who decides what it is? jso?

As for the stages, I think SS10 is the best as I feel that I could win my first stage there! It is really short so I just repeated it almost 40 times, before setting a time of 1:00:15 in a Pug 307. Hopefully I'll be able to get the same in my Subaru!

[kabouter]

Excellent idea to start the recce thread already. By the way, on the calendar that can be found in the Yahoo group, it's the other way round, Argentina non-mirrored and Jordan mirrored:
Rally Argentina 27-30 March Australia
Jordan Rally WRC 24-27 April Australia(M)

[tannat]

Excellent idea to start the recce thread already. By the way, on the calendar that can be found in the Yahoo group, it's the other way round, Argentina non-mirrored and Jordan mirrored:
Rally Argentina 27-30 March Australia
Jordan Rally WRC 24-27 April Australia(M)

I prefer your order. Not certain where I got my printout....

[pettersolberg29]

Quick question: can you change car and create a new team after already signing up under another team name?

I've just discovered that my times are about 3.5 secs quicker per stage in Pug307 than my original Subi, and i've set loadsa PBs!
The Pug looks good as well - see the pic!

So if I'm allowed, I'd like to leave ARB Racers (sorry Steve, nout personal!) and create my own 'Expert Sport WRT', with me driving a Pug 307.

[Frozzy]

i know this is a noobish question but how d i find out the conditions for each stage durng the rally because more often than not when it rains i never know so can any one tell me please?

[I am evil Homer]

No it's an easy mistake to make as you can rush to repair the car and get back out on the stages!!

At each service point the next two stage maps are shown indicating the surface type (you can easily gain seconds by swapping tyres and changing suspension on tarmac-biased stages in gravel rallies). This map also shows the weather with little symbols telling you if the weather will change.

You can get away with dry tyres if it indicates a shower towards the end of the second stage (of the two your about to rally) but if it shows heavy rain/storm ytou need to switch tyres.

[tannat]

Quick question: can you change car and create a new team after already signing up under another team name?


I don't think jso1985 minds (in other words-it's okay by the rules).

I'd go to the 2008 Entry thread and post the new information. This is something of an unofficial thread :D

Are you skinning the 206 with the 307? Looks great....

[tannat]

Notes for SS1 forthcoming, but I thought I would share a tip I experienced this morning while testing:

You'll be tempted multiple times on these stages to take a turn flat out by using a great degree of steering angle and sliding through the turn-DON'T DO IT!

While this will impress all the Argentinian and Jordanian teenage boys and girls, it's not the optimal way through the corner. Brake early and throttle through the turn as if you were driving an F1 car.

You scrub way too much speed in sliding (listen to the engine revs and you will hear it).

Do a back to back comparison of the specific sector that contains the corner in question and the truth should be evident in the numbers....

[tannat]

While most of this stage is flat out full throttle cruising there are a few noteworthy corners:

1) Just after the end of the first timed sector as you run along the fence you will notice a fairly large tree contained within the fence. Just after that tree is an outcropping of fence that will catch the unwary. To make matters worse the corner at said outcropping has a degree of negative camber (not a good thing). Turn in like a fiend and you should be okay through here.

2)After #1 above you'll pass through a fence and then there is a REALLY tight and blind 2 left. Stay in close but watch out for the greenery on the left. After a few straights and 4 lefts there is another turn quite similar. Again, stay in tight and take advantage of the long straight that follows.

3)After aforementioned long straight you'll see an opening just before the next sharp turn to the right. While the temptation might be to psh hard as you have the run off room, brake and keep it tight so you don't drift wide and lose valuable seconds.

[pettersolberg29]

[quote="tannat"]You'll be tempted multiple times on these stages to take a turn flat out by using a great degree of steering angle and sliding through the turn-DON'T DO IT!
[quote]


Couldn't agree more - knocked a few secs off my PBs thanks to this advice. Without any probs in the rally, I'm getting more confident of a points scoring position in only my second rally - years of RBR has served me well!

[tannat]

Of the stage is mostly flat out. There are several tight 2s and 3s-I recommend you challenge yourself to stay as tight as possible on the exit and never mind entry speed.

Be wary of the gates. Try to force it through and you will be sorry!


Cut on the green flat areas when it is sensible. Yes, they will slow you down a bit, but if it helps your line to make a brief trip onto the greenery then do so!


Feel free to ask questions or provide tips of your own. No, I'm not the fastest, but perhaps I know something you don't (and vice versa).

Onwards to SS2!

Tannat

[tannat]

I posted this link in another thread, but it's worth reposting:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/447856/19066

It lists the composition of the stages, suggested setups, all the cheats, cars, etc.

[tannat]

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh15/tannatmadiran/oz.jpg

In contrast to the fairly open stages on SS1, SS2 features a relatively confined driving area that calls for much more precision in driving. An error will quickly put you into signage, rocks, the underbrush, or a railroad crossing sign.

The stage starts in an area familiar to WRC TV audiences-the Oz stage containg the many sponsor signs. There is a right hand turn which can be taken flat with practice, but a lift and caution might be the safe way to go. Try to stay flat from the start until a very sharp 3 left. Keep it tight, tight, tight on the turn as it is easy to push wide and lose a second or two.

Some fairly minor turns follow with a very sharp 2 right-again TIGHT!!!! A series of dodgy turns follow which require a concise rhythm. Be certain not to turn in too early-the last one before the rail crossing requires a late turn-in.

Take the crossing flat-plenty of time to line up the car ahead of time.

A nice little bumpy straight follows. It wanders a bit-try to keep it straight with not too much left and right play or its the fence or the trees for your rallycar.

About midway down the straight you'll notice a large pile of gravel rocks. You must take it on the left to abide by the rules of the championship, but a tree threatens you just beyond the pile. It can be done flat, but get your steering input just right or the body men will be busy at service!

Another little 'tree chicane' is just beyond this one. Take it flat-careful input.

The straight ends in a little left hand roundabout surrounded by fans. You could wallbng the signage by getting th end around or keep it tight on the left hand signage. The right hand turn which follows is quite long, and requires late turn it.

Then follows some 4 lefts and rights. At the left hander the road goes off camber,and is a possible place to role the car-careful on the steering input. Additonally there are some well-placed magnetic rocks in this area. Be wary of them.

This section ends with a sharp 2 right. Brake early for this one as you are carrying much speed. Keep it tight and take it under the bridge.


Now we are in the final section of the stage. There are some tricky turns, rocks, and banking on the sides-all of which can lose time for you. Aggression can pay off in this section if it is educated (PRACTICE!!). Unschooled fools are certain to get spun around, push too hard or hit a rock. Focus on this area much like the very beginning of the stage.

In summary:Precision is the watchword here. Much like the Ellendale stage too much can go wrong here as it's a bit tight in some areas.

This one is worth additional attention.

SS3 next!

[jso1985]

great reports BTW :up:

[tannat]

great reports BTW :up:

I had a horrible run here last year (2007 WRC Portugal)-you trounced me throughly.

Aside from UK I feel recce on these stages pays off larger than an other set of stages in CMR2

SS3 coming soon....

[tannat]

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh15/tannatmadiran/TannatOz3.jpg

I brake one time and only one time on this stage... :D

This stage is mostly flat out, but requires very close attention to the driving line. It is important to look as far up the stage so that you may adjust your line accordingly. Make a mistake, and it's the trees for certain.

The most challenging part is the first which involves somewhat open roads in the forest. This entire section can be done flat out, with minor lifts of the throttle if needed.

It begins 3 left, 5 left, 3 right, 3 left (beware these 3's-PRACTICE!!!)
then long 4 right (this 4 right is downhill, keep it really close to the trees on the inside)

6 left then signage and a 4 left, 5 right, long 4 left long 3 right, 5 right, 5 left
Next is turn 3 left-keep on the gas and keep it tight to the left being careful not to turn in too early)

5 right, long 4 left, long 4 right (don't apex too early on the long turns) 4 right, 3 left, 6 right long 4 left

(stage opens onto the second part-the plains)

Once onto the plains stay flat. A long 3 right comes next-keep it flat, turn in appropriately and bang the rear of the car against the opposite fence if you drift wide (mind the tree next to the fence!).

Stay flat onto the turn 4 right. Things narrow a bit.

After the 4 right is 3 left, 4 right (wallbang the rear if contact is imminent), 3 right 6 left, 6 right

After the 6 right a rock wall will loom ahead with the call 3 left. Stay flat out and positively wrench the car 180 dgrees. The rear will hit the wal and off you go!

Next call: 3 left, 3 right (a lift and appropriate turn in will get you around this on ewith no braking).

Next is an open hairpin- BRAKE!!! Tight entry, tight exit.

2 right (lift, turn appropo), 5 left then JUMP #1 (airborne)

For JUMP#2 I take it really tight on the right (try to clip the tree). This helps your line when you land.

The following final section has some dodgy turns- don't apeax too early.

After JUMP #2: 4 left, 4 left, 5 right, 3 left tightens (REAL easy on this one!).

Finish-now wasn't that easy.. :D

SS4 tomorrow..

Tannat

[tannat]

In my opinion the most challenging lose gravel stage in the game-enough said.
And without question "Practice makes perfect"...

This stage can be divided into 3 areas:
1) the opening spectator/tarmac area
2)the forest (challenging and car damaging forest, that is ;) )
3) Over the bridge and onto the finish

Section 1

The opening part of Elendale is as slick as ice, and requires the attention and precision as the ice stage on Sweden. It's very easy to push to hard and go straight off. Brake quite early and turn in decisively for each turn. Let caution be your guide.

Towards the end of this little bit there is a change to tarmac. ou can go through the gate flat if you get the rear of the car around sufficiently, and can bang it on the opposite fence if necessary.

Do the tarmac section flat and be correct in your steering inputs. No need for braking here. If you are braking then practice untl you get it right and tone down your steering if necessary. All the speed collected here you can carry into section 2 of this stage (coming next)....

[tannat]

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh15/tannatmadiran/XsaraOz.jpg

In the movie Star Wars Luke Skywalker pilots his X-Wing fighter down a narrow cannon at high speeds in order to launch missles to destro the Death Star.

Aside from the missle bit, I think driving the forest section on Oz SS4 must be a similar feeling, except Luke had not turns with which to contend....

Coming off the Tarmac you are flat out. Try to remain so all the way to the bridge. There is a dodgy left hander-try to take it by lifting on the throttle.

Use ALL the banking on the sides if necessary-it won't slow you down. Besides, they do it in NASCAR. Certainly a rallycar can handle it!

Use the inner white post as an apex point over the bridge, and braking early would be a good idea. You'll be embarassed to post in the rally thread about your trip into the river...

After the bridge the stage gets worse. It narrows, and there is a challenging left, then right-remember: TIGHT and NEAT like Eva Longoria :D

After the right the next corners are called as two separate corners, but if you turn in just right you can shoot straight through them with minimal steering input. Your biggest danger here are trees, and the software designers chose the location of the trees wisely.

Once through this section the stage opens up a bit, and without remembering the precise order of turns I recall two tricky high speed sets where it is quite easy to have the car going exactly in the direction you don't want it to. This will take practice-lots of time can be gained through here as it is quite fast.

There is a short straight then you will here "CAUTION" called b the co-driver. A REALLY difficult 2 right is approaching. Brake heavy (!) and then crank the car around appropriately to deal with the difficult turn immediately following (just a small twisty bit, but challenging).

The stage again opens up, and you can press hard. There are many turns approaching. For the most part you can take them flat, but again the TIGHT and NEAT mantra must be obeyed. You can push too hard on the banking and really upset the car. Try to keep it on the light colored gravel (the main path) and hug the inside of every turn as if you are driving an F1 car.

We are now close to the end of the forest section. Approaching is a devil of a turn. It begins with a slight outcropping of rock at a point where the road broadens slighly-no big deal, but next has to be one of the most challenging turns in the game. The road narrows, with a tree on the left and an outcropping on the right. Unless you are REALLY on your game and no the stage I recommend braking heavy and exercising caution. This turn requires very precise steering input, and unless you are willing to risk losing 3-4 seconds I would take it easy.

It should be said that, with practice you can take this flat. It is something to which you can aspire (I'm not there yet ;) ).

After this harrowing turn we are on the third section of the stage. It is taken mostly flat. Use all of the road and then some being not afraid to use the darker colored gravel areas (in a dark brick red). Late apex the final right on the stage so that you can keep the car in pretty much a straight line all the way to the finish....


WHEW! Are you ready for a service stop? :D

[UKOG~Will]

Many thanks for these tips Tannat; nice one

[tannat]

I'll preface this by saying I do my rallies on PS1 with an auto gearbox and wingpad.

SS5 Bililuna has the enormous straight of tarmac on which I did the top speed runs for JTL's Rally Magazine (see issue 4). Up until 4 I use a gearbox setting of 0, but the straight (which is used again on SS8, or is it SS7?) requires higher gearing. Additionally SS9 calls for higher gearing, as I nudge the limiter in a few spots with a gearbox setting of 0. I submit the following recommendation:

For PS1 players: I think a setting of Gearbox +1 is optimal for stages 5-10. While I did see a mild improvement in relevant sectors on SS5 using +2 for gearbox (look at your sector 2 and 3 times) I think it would slow you down on all other stages. Do a comparo for yourself, and be certain to follow with a comparo on the other stages to see what the setting does for ou.


For PC players: As I discovered in my top speed test (again, see JTLs Rally Magazine issue #4) your cars accelerate faster than PS1 cars. For ccertain have a look at perhaps a +2 setting for stages 5-10. The onl caution is how this setting will hurt performance on the stages without the straights.

SS5 Bililuna (and whatever the reverse run is, either SS7 or SS8) and SS9 are the stages benefitting from higher gearing. Do comparisons, pay attention to the timed sectors where only the higher gearing is the impacted factor (and not your driving, etc) and devise the proper strategy for these stages.

On to SS5 :D

Tannat

[tannat]

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh15/tannatmadiran/Oz-5.jpg

Another mostly flat out stage, with some challenging twist bits and corner combinations.

You will not use your brakes until you are into the 4th timed sector. The stage starts on gravel with somewhat challenging turns. Stay on it and use all the road and you should handle these with no problem.

As you exi the gravel onto the tarmac hug the right hand bushes as closely as possible. Be careful not to nail the fence before you get onto the tarmac.

Light a cigar and smoke it for the next 5 seconds before you exit the tarmac on the gravel-STAY ON IT! No braking, no lifting!

Your first braking point is aproaching. I believe the codriver calls 4 right. Get on the brakes and slow it down hard. Take the turn appropriately.

Next is a series of 2s and 3s. All seem to require a late turn in. Havng your brake bias to the rear can be off help.

The stage opens a bit, and I believe that until the next armac bit the turns can be taken flat, they are all either 3s or 4s. The key is to turn in hard and crank the car around.

To aid the car in getting onto tarmac I sometimes use the handbrake to get the rear around. If your steering is aggressive enough you can crank it around with no trouble. Just be certain not to hit the fence on either side of the road and crash!

Of the tarmac and back onto the gravel, flat out, no braking. There is a large pipe (or something) on your right. Stage is straight abit and then there is a tight 2 (or is it 3) right. HEAVY on brakes as you don't want to plow into the trees.

There follows a bumpy straight-carfeul of the signage but no brakng and no lifting

There are two complexes of turns, both of which have you facing exactly the direction you don't want to be facing at some point. Being fast here requires familiarity. As you'll be doing the stage in reverse (SS8) it's not a bad idea to drive through both complexes, turn around, drive through, turn around, etc. etc.

I believe the final turn of the stage is a 4 left. Apex at the trees 9 (hug them tight) and stay on it til the finish.

[UKOG~Will]

Found the Accent then Tannat :)

I got Fraps now so I could do a video if you like.

[jso1985]

I used to kick butt on that Accent :D

[tannat]

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh15/tannatmadiran/oz-6.jpg

This shorty stage is a challenge- best to get your rally game ON!!!!

The stage leads with a series of challenging turns on gravel, elevated over a grassy plain. Many require a late apex. Apex early, bump the side and you are over the ledge, certain to lose time on the grass which will bog you down!

One or two of the turns require hard right to left or left to right transitions within a small space. I find wallbanging a good way to deal with these, but a quick steering will help.

By the way, this is another stage wheer braking once should be sufficient (but not yet :D ).

A hard left will lead to a long 4 right which should take you from the plains into a small thatch of trees. A sharp left onto tarmac follows the aforementioned 4 right. BRAKE! And keep it tight on the left hand trees as you accelerate onto tarmac.

A viscious wrench on the steering wheel (or tug on the handbrake) will line you up nicely as you are back onto gravel between two white fences. Never mind the road and use ALL the screen venturing into the darker gravel to get the proper line for the next turn. Careful, as a hidden rosk awaits you on the right if you aren't careful.
You'll come round a left hand turn and see a narrow opening in the fence. Take it flat-you can do it.

How?

-Enter is WIDE on the right. This opens it up significantly.
-You'll go throught he opening with no trouble, but with signage directly ahead. Either wrench the steering hard (or apply handbrake) and you'll bounce off the signage with no worries (except for the bodymen at service :D ).

Flat out for the remainder of the stage. A bit difficult to control the car as its bumpy-practice, and mind the signage.

Finish!

[tannat]

Found the Accent then Tannat :)

I got Fraps now so I could do a video if you like.

If you like, Will. Howver I get the feeling this thread is undersubscribed :(

I think the most beneficial stage to watch would be Elendale....

Thanks!

james

[kabouter]

I just spent some time practicing SS1, and thanks to Tannat's tips I managed to get 3 seconds of my previous best time - and I'm sure that if I could keep it tighter near the end of the stage there's room for more improvement. There are now more places I dare go (almost) flat out and I tried to change my point of turning in and apex for some turns which helped.

The one advantage of not being good at the game is that you can improve easily ;)