Those who got the pooch

[peatsea]

Let's make a list of all the people who got boinked on this deal:

So far I got:

Walker + 50 employees
Tracy + 50 at Forsythe
Kamphausen + 50 at Champ Car
50 at Cosworth
Promoting staffs at 15 Champ Car Venues.... How many here?

[jimispeed]

Let's make a list of all the people who got boinked on this deal:

So far I got:

Walker + 50 employees
Tracy + 50 at Forsythe
Kamphausen + 50 at Champ Car
50 at Cosworth
Promoting staffs at 15 Champ Car Venues.... How many here?


Be careful what you bring up. The moderators might shut down your thread.....

[tbyars]

I am willing to listen to these threads all day long, as long as someone takes the responsibility to give us their solution as to how it should have been handled differently.

Keep in mind:

1. It would have been nice had it been done earlier. It wasn't. You can't change what has already happened.

2. It would have been nice had the owners of the series been willing to dump another $20 or $30M into the series for 2008. They weren't. You can't change that, either.

So, with those two givens, rather than complaining, tell us what you think SHOULD have been done to save those jobs?

[dataman1]

Will this list just list full-time or include part-time? Here's some part timers for you.

Safety Team
Officials
Timing & Scoring
Obervers
Bridgestone Weekend staff


How about all the TV crews at each track, The ticket takers, consession operators, security, the guy that yelled "cold beer", wrecker operators, parking attendants, ......

How many hotels and eating places had to hire extra staff for the events?

Heck, in San Jose, the city claimed they paid millions of dollars in overtime money for EMS, police and fire. Where do those guys get that cash now?

This is much bigger than words can explain.

[Hoop-98]

On what do you base an assumption that the series would have run this year? BTW, San Jose was cancelled last year, like Denver, Phoenix, Vegas, and a 1/2 dozen other tracks in the past few years, any angst over them? Or Lola, Reynard, Windtunnel employwees when that testing was banned, the people at Multimatic when their shocks were banned, the component fabricators when their stuff was banned, .......remember all cost saving measures basically eliminate jobs.

If anything one could argue this bailout saved people.

rh

[dataman1]

So,, I guess Hoop and Starter believe there is no effect. Then all is right with the world.

[keysersoze]

Market forces always wins and no apology is ever warranted.

[Easy Drifter]

Losing your job is not fun anywhere. Think how many GM, Ford and Chyrsler jobs are gone. Thousands at Northern Telecom and how many dot com companies. It is not good but it is life.
Many of the more experienced team people will move to other teams, including ALMS, Grand Am, Napcar and so on where people with less experience will get bumped. Maybe at less money but the good ones will find jobs. Sure it will filter down but very few mechanics, engineers will be out of work for long.

[Hoop-98]

How ab out the MPH stockholders that's some weak scrappy sauce you are peddlin...

[grungex]

So,, I guess Hoop and Starter believe there is no effect. Then all is right with the world.


Or at least with their world.

[garyshell]

So,, I guess Hoop and Starter believe there is no effect. Then all is right with the world.

Neither of them said "no effect", they just pointed out some of the folks being included in the head count didn't really belong there that's all. They didn't say anything about the Safety Team, Officials or Timing & Scoring. So that would hardly constitute "no effect".

No one is denying folks lost a job, and no one is denying it sucks that folks lost a job.

Gary

[SoCalPVguy]

Let's make a list of all the people who got boinked on this deal:

So far I got:

Walker + 50 employees
Tracy + 50 at Forsythe
Kamphausen + 50 at Champ Car
50 at Cosworth
Promoting staffs at 15 Champ Car Venues.... How many here?

Disagree with you about Walker. It seems that Gore was going to pull out no matter what and Mr. Walker would not have been able to race in CCWS, if it continued, anyway.

[Hoop-98]

The losses started wih the Rahal-Heitzler-Pook era, and they took down 150M in stockholder value.

All the money saving initiatives in the ill fated CART rescue by OWRS, equaled cutting head count, be it on teams, suppliers, and just count the tracks we lost.

I guess in a scrappy world that was all ok. But when Paulie G., Mr. Petit, and KK and GF unaimously decided not to continue to fund OWRS and aaccept a partial bailout, one that would have been much better 2 years ago when it was klled off, well thats when we start worrying eh?

Hey why didn't the heroes (PG, GF, DP,)chip in and buy out KK and continue to fund the cash bleeding series that was once again about to take off.

Did someone put a gun to their head to sign, or was it just about their lack of monetary commitment?

rh

[!!WALDO!!]

All of those folks get lots of over time from other things. And I strongly doubt "millions of dollars" for overtime - 3 days a year?




You forgot something. These tracks take 60 days to build and 20 days to tear down. Is traffic affected? Are emergency routes affected?

I heard a discussion about a possible race in Chicago that pre and post race "Emergency" and "Traffic" responses would cost as much as $5,000,000 in extra coverage and overtime.

It is funny that there are those that think Samantha whiggles her nose and a race track magically appears when it is really a windfall for those lucky enough to get the work either building or monitoring and contolling the situation blocked streets cause.

[!!WALDO!!]

Traffic is rarely diverted more than a couple days before the event and the roads are usually open within 24 hours after, usually less. The last thing to happen on Thursday evening is the closing of streets. Sure, there is some disruption during construction of the walls, etc, along the course. But no more than any other road construction or repair job anywhere.


Really, I guess I will throw out the meeting with elected officials, streets and san, police, fire, and the construction people.

They don't know anything. Too bad the promoter didn't have more stones to spend the money that the City wanted for disruption.

[nanders]

Really, I guess I will throw out the meeting with elected officials, streets and san, police, fire, and the construction people.

They don't know anything. Too bad the promoter didn't have more stones to spend the money that the City wanted for disruption.

You talk to everyone like they're idiots. Isn't there a way where you could have a better approach? Do you have to talk down to everyone?

You have allot cool stuff to share but the way you do it makes people want to put you on their ignore list.

[!!WALDO!!]

You talk to everyone like they're idiots.

I didn't call anyone idiots, you are assuming. I got dragged into this Champ Car race in Chicago by those willing to look into it. Since I had some experience I was asked to sit in the meetings. I was educated real quick to what it was going to take. The track had to be in place 48 hours to the first person to be able to pass inspection from the city and to have the sanction, promoters and city insurance sign off on it. So that was that when the bill looked like the high side of $25M. CCWS still had it on the schedule three weeks prior to the race date in May. We were shut down in August a year before.


Isn't there a way where you could have a better approach? Do you have to talk down to everyone?

If you assume I am a 14 year old then it is talking down. Based on what I have seen, if a person is 24 years old then they assume everyone is is 24. I got 30 years on that and I can see the difference. People my age and older are respectful of those that have knowledge and life experience. People that are half my age minus 15% are not respectful any more. I learned this sport from my grandfather, my dad, family friends, a driver who sat on the pole at Indy in 1929, by going to 1,000 races and talking to the fans around me, getting books, NSSN since 1968, writing stories, working as a crew member, an official a promoter, running the pits and working with 20 different sanctions, plus hundreds of other things.
So how should I talk to those that think none of that is important or relevant to today's racing?


You have allot cool stuff to share but the way you do it makes people want to put you on their ignore list.

I find that there are those who's total racing life is in places like this. If they want to run from those who been there and know stuff then fine. I bet they hated those teachers in front of the class that tried to impart knowledge on young minds full of mush.
Garyshell is a good example. He got angry because "what he learned is totally wrong" as I see it. If you were taught 2 plus 2 is 5 does it make it right if that is the way you learned it?
Some people insist on living in their world where every thought they have is right. If I am not sure I look it up, I do not shoot from the hip or try to be a smart arse about it.
Knowledge is something anyone should run from but embrace. I learn 15 things everyday and make it my mission, 3 or 4 are about this sport and ZERO comes from the Internet as most is only OPINIONS and knowledge is not required to state an opinion. Just a keyboard and an Internet connection and a membership to a site.

So if you want to ignore me then fine, it is your right and I am not going to lose any sleep over it.

[garyshell]

You talk to everyone like they're idiots. Isn't there a way where you could have a better approach? Do you have to talk down to everyone?

You have allot cool stuff to share but the way you do it makes people want to put you on their ignore list.

Nanders,

Don't waste your breath. Uncle Waldo is convinced that because of his experience he is better than anyone else here and we all need to bow down to him. He doesn't even have a clue that he is constantly talking down to folks. His constant berating of others ideas is boorish at best, I got sick and tired of it. There are way to many folks here that have respect for each other to waste your keystrokes on the likes of uncle Waldo. He craves the attention. Take it away and he'll slink off to where it was that he came from. He's only been here for about a month and already he's riled up quite a number of folks with his antics, all the while wondering why people are "coming at" him. It always amazes me to see someone join a forum and then try to impress everyone and demand respect. I have seen this happen countless times since 1984 when I first joined Compuserve. Most folks try to fit in and gain respect, others think they have some sort of entitlement and don't need to earn respect.


Things have been much more pleasant here since I found the ignore button. Now all I see of Uncle Waldo is the occasional reply from other folks. Much nicer indeed.

Gary

[nanders]

I didn't call anyone idiots, you are assuming. I got dragged into this Champ Car race in Chicago by those willing to look into it. Since I had some experience I was asked to sit in the meetings. I was educated real quick to what it was going to take. The track had to be in place 48 hours to the first person to be able to pass inspection from the city and to have the sanction, promoters and city insurance sign off on it. So that was that when the bill looked like the high side of $25M. CCWS still had it on the schedule three weeks prior to the race date in May. We were shut down in August a year before.



If you assume I am a 14 year old then it is talking down. Based on what I have seen, if a person is 24 years old then they assume everyone is is 24. I got 30 years on that and I can see the difference. People my age and older are respectful of those that have knowledge and life experience. People that are half my age minus 15% are not respectful any more. I learned this sport from my grandfather, my dad, family friends, a driver who sat on the pole at Indy in 1929, by going to 1,000 races and talking to the fans around me, getting books, NSSN since 1968, writing stories, working as a crew member, an official a promoter, running the pits and working with 20 different sanctions, plus hundreds of other things.
So how should I talk to those that think none of that is important or relevant to today's racing?



I find that there are those who's total racing life is in places like this. If they want to run from those who been there and know stuff then fine. I bet they hated those teachers in front of the class that tried to impart knowledge on young minds full of mush.
Garyshell is a good example. He got angry because "what he learned is totally wrong" as I see it. If you were taught 2 plus 2 is 5 does it make it right if that is the way you learned it?
Some people insist on living in their world where every thought they have is right. If I am not sure I look it up, I do not shoot from the hip or try to be a smart arse about it.
Knowledge is something anyone should run from but embrace. I learn 15 things everyday and make it my mission, 3 or 4 are about this sport and ZERO comes from the Internet as most is only OPINIONS and knowledge is not required to state an opinion. Just a keyboard and an Internet connection and a membership to a site.

So if you want to ignore me then fine, it is your right and I am not going to lose any sleep over it.

You just don't get it. It's not about what you know. It's not about how old you are. It's not about who you know. It's not about what your life experiences are. It's not about the knowledge you received from your grandfather.

It's about you talking down to the people here. It's about you treating the people here like they're stupid for having a different take then you. You treat people poorly. You could, if you tried, get your point across and make friends. But I'm not sure you can.

[nanders]

Nanders,

Don't waste your breath. Uncle Waldo is convinced that because of his experience he is better than anyone else here and we all need to bow down to him. He doesn't even have a clue that he is constantly talking down to folks. His constant berating of others ideas is boorish at best, I got sick and tired of it. There are way to many folks here that have respect for each other to waste your keystrokes on the likes of uncle Waldo. He craves the attention. Take it away and he'll slink off to where it was that he came from. He's only been here for about a month and already he's riled up quite a number of folks with his antics, all the while wondering why people are "coming at" him. It always amazes me to see someone join a forum and then try to impress everyone and demand respect. I have seen this happen countless times since 1984 when I first joined Compuserve. Most folks try to fit in and gain respect, others think they have some sort of entitlement and don't need to earn respect.


Things have been much more pleasant here since I found the ignore button. Now all I see of Uncle Waldo is the occasional reply from other folks. Much nicer indeed.

GaryWow! 1984 with Compuserve! It was like 1991 for me.

But alas Gary, you are right. Note to self: Ignore Waldo. ...... done!

[garyshell]

Wow! 1984 with Compuserve! It was like 1991 for me.

Yep and BBS systems before that. I ran a FIDO BBS for a long time. The newsgroups on FIDO were really great. These systems evolved into a very elaborate network of machines all over the globe exchanging messages and routing lists with each other every night. The messages were hosted locally so that folks could use a free dial up call to access the BBS. But the overnight exchange propagated those messages around the world. These were the precursor to the centralized newsgroups we have today on the Internet.

Gary

[Dave Brock]

Let's make a list of all the people who got boinked on this deal:

So far I got:

Walker + 50 employees
Tracy + 50 at Forsythe
Kamphausen + 50 at Champ Car
50 at Cosworth
Promoting staffs at 15 Champ Car Venues.... How many here?

The guy who performed the emods on the DP-01
The sign painters
The office furniture rental place
The staff at the ad agency of record

at least there weren't 100,000 serious supporters who BOUGHT stock & put their money where their hearts were...!

[Crapwagons4Ever]

You talk to everyone like they're idiots. Isn't there a way where you could have a better approach? Do you have to talk down to everyone?

You have allot cool stuff to share but the way you do it makes people want to put you on their ignore list.

This sums up Waldo perfectly. So much interesting information overshadowed by a pedantic style and a grating demeanour. Thanks for the heads up about the Ignore feature, Nanders.

[Shirk]

Walker + 50 employees
Tracy + 50 at Forsythe
Kamphausen + 50 at Champ Car
50 at Cosworth
Promoting staffs at 15 Champ Car Venues.... How many here?
Add the employees of Minardi USA to the list.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/65634

[SoCalPVguy]

Add the employees of Minardi USA to the list.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/65634

maybe not, Wiggins is going to run the team and field an entry, so probably those folks will have the same jobs but a new 'employer'.

[!!WALDO!!]

maybe not, Wiggins is going to run the team and field an entry, so probably those folks will have the same jobs but a new 'employer'.

Does Wiggins have any money? He has been hunting for years.

[cartpix]

Hey why didn't the heroes (PG, GF, DP,)chip in and buy out KK and continue to fund the cash bleeding series that was once again about to take off.



What makes you think that KK was the one who was "cheaping out" on Champ Car? I know we can excuse PG from the, "I bring a huge amount of money to the table" crew. I have a feeling GF thought he had already lost a ton of money & wasn't happy funneling a bunch more, into the series. Up until a couple years ago, no one knew who DP was. This leaves KK, as the lone saviour of CC, IMO.

Jeff

[cartpix]

The guy who performed the emods on the DP-01
The sign painters
The office furniture rental place
The staff at the ad agency of record

at least there weren't 100,000 serious supporters who BOUGHT stock & put their money where their hearts were...!

Add me, to the list. My editor doesn't want to cover the IRL. Now I can stop loosing all that money, flying around the country, covering this stuff for very little in return. LOL

Jeff

[!!WALDO!!]

Add me, to the list. My editor doesn't want to cover the IRL. Now I can stop loosing all that money, flying around the country, covering this stuff for very little in return. LOL

Jeff


Too bad, everyone deserves a chance, except for here.

[SoCalPVguy]

Does Wiggins have any money? He has been hunting for years.

Then they can continue to work for nothing for Wiggins like they were probably doing for Stoddard. Assuming that Wiggins has a sponsor to keep running and not paying out of pocket which is highly unlikley.

[Cart750hp]

Let's make a list of all the people who got boinked on this deal:

So far I got:

Walker + 50 employees
Tracy + 50 at Forsythe
Kamphausen + 50 at Champ Car
50 at Cosworth
Promoting staffs at 15 Champ Car Venues.... How many here?

.....and 500,000 Fanatics!

[garyshell]

.....and 500,000 Fanatics!


Come now, Cart750hp. You know very well that there were millions and millions of the "fanatics". Just ask them.

Gary

[bblocker68]

Take a few of those Forsythe people off the list, since some or many are going to Conquest.

[Hoop-98]

What makes you think that KK was the one who was "cheaping out" on Champ Car? I know we can excuse PG from the, "I bring a huge amount of money to the table" crew. I have a feeling GF thought he had already lost a ton of money & wasn't happy funneling a bunch more, into the series. Up until a couple years ago, no one knew who DP was. This leaves KK, as the lone saviour of CC, IMO.

Jeff

I was being facetious, I 'think" he invested the most actually, but i do not "know".

rh

[cartpix]

I was being facetious, I 'think" he invested the most actually, but i do not "know".

rh


I "think" so, too. I've just been looking for the right opportunity to voice my opinion. I hated to see the F-Troop, at that other forum, start up the FKK crap. But then again, a lot of those guys are not working with all (any?) of the facts.

Jeff

[!!WALDO!!]

at that other forum, start up the FKK crap.

Mean that is starting? What people want KK to lose every penny he ever made? For what? Them?

[cartpix]

Mean that is starting? What people want KK to lose every penny he ever made? For what? Them?

Start, starting, I think it may work both ways. At least in my mind. ;-)

As for those (at CCF & other places) who want KK to lose every penny, sounds like the gudge / hatred you posted about, in a different thread. They are only harming themselves. Do you really think that their hatred is effecting KK or TG in the least? Do you think Tony George sits up, at night, wonders how he could get the fanatics to like him, and then cries himself to sleep? Do you think KK sweats out the F-Troop calling names & not letting him join in any reindeer games? I really think if the "real" race fans, from both sides attend the unified races & the "I'll never follow a series led by FTG" types do what they say, the attence figures at IRL races will significantly rise.

Just a thought. Your milage may vary.

Jeff

[Cart750hp]

Start, starting, I think it may work both ways. At least in my mind. ;-)

As for those (at CCF & other places) who want KK to lose every penny, sounds like the gudge / hatred you posted about, in a different thread. They are only harming themselves. Do you really think that their hatred is effecting KK or TG in the least? Do you think Tony George sits up, at night, wonders how he could get the fanatics to like him, and then cries himself to sleep? Do you think KK sweats out the F-Troop calling names & not letting him join in any reindeer games? I really think if the "real" race fans, from both sides attend the unified races & the "I'll never follow a series led by FTG" types do what they say, the attence figures at IRL races will significantly rise.

Just a thought. Your milage may vary.

Jeff

Good word, Jeff. As always.

[!!WALDO!!]

Start, starting, I think it may work both ways. At least in my mind. ;-)

As for those (at CCF & other places) who want KK to lose every penny, sounds like the gudge / hatred you posted about, in a different thread. They are only harming themselves. Do you really think that their hatred is effecting KK or TG in the least? Do you think Tony George sits up, at night, wonders how he could get the fanatics to like him, and then cries himself to sleep? Do you think KK sweats out the F-Troop calling names & not letting him join in any reindeer games? I really think if the "real" race fans, from both sides attend the unified races & the "I'll never follow a series led by FTG" types do what they say, the attence figures at IRL races will significantly rise.

Just a thought. Your milage may vary.

Jeff

I know and you are right. Everytime I try to point out reality I get slapped down. It has been this way for 12 years. If you asked some of the loudest people if they went to CCWS races they would say no! They are too busy spewing their version of the facts on the internet in hopes of what? Nobody will go to the IRL races.

No it is waste of good emotions as the "war" is over. Being a historian I loved Shelby Foote's discussion of meeting several years ago with General Nathan Bedford Forrest's granddaughter. Being able to wave the General's sword at her house in Memphis and saying to her that in his opinion her Grand father and Abraham Lincoln were the two most important people of the Civil War and she said "Down here we don't think very much of Mr. Lincoln."
How about Vicksburg, Mississippi surrendering to the Union troops on July, 4th 1863 and not celebrating the 4th of July until 1944?

Civil War wounds run real deep but the only way for some is to just get over it.

[weeflyonthewall]

Disagree with you about Walker. It seems that Gore was going to pull out no matter what and Mr. Walker would not have been able to race in CCWS, if it continued, anyway.

Gore or the people he represented? This had been speculated for months.

[weeflyonthewall]

I know and you are right. Everytime I try to point out reality I get slapped down. It has been this way for 12 years. If you asked some of the loudest people if they went to CCWS races they would say no! They are too busy spewing their version of the facts on the internet in hopes of what? Nobody will go to the IRL races.

No it is waste of good emotions as the "war" is over. Being a historian I loved Shelby Foote's discussion of meeting several years ago with General Nathan Bedford Forrest's granddaughter. Being able to wave the General's sword at her house in Memphis and saying to her that in his opinion her Grand father and Abraham Lincoln were the two most important people of the Civil War and she said "Down here we don't think very much of Mr. Lincoln."
How about Vicksburg, Mississippi surrendering to the Union troops on July, 4th 1863 and not celebrating the 4th of July until 1944?

Civil War wounds run real deep but the only way for some is to just get over it.
Or walk around in the desert for 40 years surviving on manna.

[weeflyonthewall]

Add the employees of Minardi USA to the list.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/65634

Double check that fact. I heard through the grapevine they'll show up with a different team name. HVM ring a bell?

[Rogelio]

I will not offer solutions but I will add a little more to the discussion. It certainly is tragic for the teams, tracks, fans, workers, and cities that Champ Car is gone. Certainly many of the teams would have struggled answering the Champ Car bell this year. As most of us Champ Car fans know, the demise of our league has been a continual process. The Amigos, well...regardless of their best intentions failed to deliver. What more needs to be said.

The teams that have failed to transition to the IRL (Team Australia, Forsythe, Minardi), did so because Champ Car failed to deliver a product that was marketable. Consequently, the teams and league struggled to gain sponsorship this year and in past years. Had Champ Car had a successful 2007 season (and previous ones) it would have been much easier to obtain sponsorship. The collapse/bankruptcy of Champ Car just nailed the nail in the coffin for teams to shut down. Why should the teams go through an uncompetitive season with no sponsorship?

Did the Amigos honestly think that the 2008 season was going to be any better? I am assuming absolutely not. Instead, of preparing for a possible "merger" in September/October when Champ Car teams sat around in between races, the Amigos went about business like all was fine and dandy. They should have started serious dialogue with TG. Instead, our series ends on a less than stellar note, and we proceeded with our Sebring practice like everything was ok. Then weeks later, the shocking news that there is a "merger." The least they could have done is taken care of the "merger" talks much earlier.

I know it easy to be a Monday morning quaterback. But I assure you that teams/owners, like Forsythe, were sickened by the simple "collapse" of KK. It makes no business sense to make the teams believe that there will be a 2008 season and then pull the rug right underneath them. Certainly, animosity and bitterness fill the air.

Solution: well, it comes down to sponsorship and it is too late. What more needs to be said.

I do not blame Minardi or Forsythe for not wanting to partake in a deal/"merger" that was done half @$$. I feel for everybody involved that was hurt by the refusal to run in the IRL. Had serious "merger" discussion taken place much sooner, then the IRL/Champ Car could have avoided this headache.

[!!WALDO!!]

I will not offer solutions but I will add a little more to the discussion. It certainly is tragic for the teams, tracks, fans, workers, and cities that Champ Car is gone. Certainly many of the teams would have struggled answering the Champ Car bell this year. As most of us Champ Car fans know, the demise of our league has been a continual process. The Amigos, well...regardless of their best intentions failed to deliver. What more needs to be said.

The teams that have failed to transition to the IRL (Team Australia, Forsythe, Minardi), did so because Champ Car failed to deliver a product that was marketable. Consequently, the teams and league struggled to gain sponsorship this year and in past years. Had Champ Car had a successful 2007 season (and previous ones) it would have been much easier to obtain sponsorship. The collapse/bankruptcy of Champ Car just nailed the nail in the coffin for teams to shut down. Why should the teams go through an uncompetitive season with no sponsorship?

Did the Amigos honestly think that the 2008 season was going to be any better? I am assuming absolutely not. Instead, of preparing for a possible "merger" in September/October when Champ Car teams sat around in between races, the Amigos went about business like all was fine and dandy. They should have started serious dialogue with TG. Instead, our series ends on a less than stellar note, and we proceeded with our Sebring practice like everything was ok. Then weeks later, the shocking news that there is a "merger." The least they could have done is taken care of the "merger" talks much earlier.

I know it easy to be a Monday morning quaterback. But I assure you that teams/owners, like Forsythe, were sickened by the simple "collapse" of KK. It makes no business sense to make the teams believe that there will be a 2008 season and then pull the rug right underneath them. Certainly, animosity and bitterness fill the air.

Solution: well, it comes down to sponsorship and it is too late. What more needs to be said.

I do not blame Minardi or Forsythe for not wanting to partake in a deal/"merger" that was done half @$$. I feel for everybody involved that was hurt by the refusal to run in the IRL. Had serious "merger" discussion taken place much sooner, then the IRL/Champ Car could have avoided this headache.

Well said.

[pits4me]

I will not offer solutions but I will add a little more to the discussion. It certainly is tragic for the teams, tracks, fans, workers, and cities that Champ Car is gone. Certainly many of the teams would have struggled answering the Champ Car bell this year. As most of us Champ Car fans know, the demise of our league has been a continual process. The Amigos, well...regardless of their best intentions failed to deliver. What more needs to be said.

The teams that have failed to transition to the IRL (Team Australia, Forsythe, Minardi), did so because Champ Car failed to deliver a product that was marketable. Consequently, the teams and league struggled to gain sponsorship this year and in past years. Had Champ Car had a successful 2007 season (and previous ones) it would have been much easier to obtain sponsorship. The collapse/bankruptcy of Champ Car just nailed the nail in the coffin for teams to shut down. Why should the teams go through an uncompetitive season with no sponsorship?

Did the Amigos honestly think that the 2008 season was going to be any better? I am assuming absolutely not. Instead, of preparing for a possible "merger" in September/October when Champ Car teams sat around in between races, the Amigos went about business like all was fine and dandy. They should have started serious dialogue with TG. Instead, our series ends on a less than stellar note, and we proceeded with our Sebring practice like everything was ok. Then weeks later, the shocking news that there is a "merger." The least they could have done is taken care of the "merger" talks much earlier.

I know it easy to be a Monday morning quaterback. But I assure you that teams/owners, like Forsythe, were sickened by the simple "collapse" of KK. It makes no business sense to make the teams believe that there will be a 2008 season and then pull the rug right underneath them. Certainly, animosity and bitterness fill the air.

Solution: well, it comes down to sponsorship and it is too late. What more needs to be said.

I do not blame Minardi or Forsythe for not wanting to partake in a deal/"merger" that was done half @$$. I feel for everybody involved that was hurt by the refusal to run in the IRL. Had serious "merger" discussion taken place much sooner, then the IRL/Champ Car could have avoided this headache.

Very easy observation to make when most of the facts are speculated. Champ Car had a very good product unfortunately open wheel has become was so fragmented in the US, no one was really winning anything. Sponsorhip wasn't worth the paper it was written on. Just ask Patron, NYSE or associate sponsors on the Team Australia program.

Accept it or not, Champ car had some interesting strategies in play, if they had accepted the European offer being circulated, USOWR as we know it would have crumbled and CC would have been more global and much less North American. There would have been few winners in that scenario and most US fans disenchanted with everything. One can only guess what would have happened to Indy by 2010 since the facade was falling apart at the seams.

There was a fork in the road and industry insiders knew Cinderella would have been left at the junction. The choice was clear for the two key players in this game and USOWR lives on. There will be significant collateral damage but all wars have had to deal with it.

2008 will be no picnic by any means but a foundation to a new beginning and one heck of a rollercoaster ride for the next seven months.

[geek49203]

Look guys...

IN auto racing, the only people who haven't been fired yet are the volunteers in their first gig. Getting fired is a way of life. Heck, by July (midway of the season) half of the traveling circus leave every track believing that they're gonna get fired within a few weeks. The CCWS people all knew the game. Yeah, it hurts, but getting fired from an auto racing gig is the norm.

Auto racing, by its very nature, is very fluid and very dynamic. That's the way it's always been... Racing series start up, then they die (CanAm, IROC, TransAm, etc etc). Teams start up, they run, they die. PR people constantly change jobs. Drivers have silly season. Heck, how many tracks that used to run Indy cars have gone belly-up the last 25 years -- Nazareth and Pikes Peak anyone?

If you like job security, get a unionized job with your local government, or find a way to make money from human stupidity -- but certainly, don't go near a race team.

[Sandfly]

The IRL will slowly improve, unification as it has occurred is no guartee of successs. The IRL will likely continue to provide an Indy Centric series of minimal impact except at Indy. If a properly managed open wheel road racing series were to emerge, committed to real open wheel competition and involving manufacturers in a turbo charged engine campaign with market relevance, perhaps initially utilizing those circuits and machines left out of the oval centric IRL, including the european venues --- there could be a revival of open wheel road racing. When?? we will see...

[Easy Drifter]

The team employees, if they are any good will soon find work. Way back when I left an Atlantic team (crew chief) I had one job offer before I left the track and 2 more the next week all for more than I was getting.
Most of us wanted one series, one way or another, and when it happened there had to be races dropped and people let go. Logistics rule.
It wouldn't have mattered how it came about but there had to be those who got the axe.

[!!WALDO!!]

NYSE

NYSE bought out Archipelago and Archipelago had a 5 year contract with Andretti and NYSE honored it. They left because the contract was no longer.

NYSE did not come in on their own like many CCWS think, they just honored the contract.

My ex is a top person in that industry and at the Chicago Merc. She explained to me the deals around the merger of Archipelago and NYSE.