WRC Testing

[stefanvv]

It's testing.... something

[EstWRC]

it was Tommi driving https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p42zmLQx1I4

[maciotacio]

Correct me if i'm wrong, was that first tarmac test of that Makinen thing?
So sloooow...
When the '17 cars needs to be homologated?

[Mirek]

When the '17 cars needs to be homologated?

In one or two weeks the process shall start.

[CWJ]

Documents have to be sent to ASN (here Japan) first and not be later then 01/11/16 at FIA

[EstWRC]

Test Tommi Makinen - Toyota Yaris https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8pmXE7ntvY&feature=youtu.be

[rogef]

From the minute 1:50, already shows some speed

YARIS WRC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj_WyFfEHL0

[stefanvv]

yeah, that is some speed, but I still don;t hear the tyres:(

[EstWRC]

Toyota Yaris WRC 2017 Tarmac Test with Tommi Makinen by Jaume Soler https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLQb0y6FgCg

[EstWRC]

Toyota Yaris WRC 2017 | New Tarmac Test with Tommi Makinen by Jaume Soler https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqP9VlHFW5Q&feature=youtu.be

[dimviii]

some improved speed,and better exit from corners imho at this video
https://youtu.be/mNZeBB8qqGo

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwM2Ld_VIAA9ei8.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwM2LeJUMAAvexB.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwM2LeNVMAAFt4E.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwM2LeWUEAAGYa-.jpg

[dimviii]

day 2 Hanninen Spain
https://youtu.be/nWHs-fnaeaM

[Fast Eddie WRC]

From what I've seen of the 2017 cars, the Fiesta doesn't seem to be lifting its nose on jumps as badly as the others. I'm sure the Citroen & VW were landing tail-first much more on their Finland tests.

Is the Fiesta not going as fast, or have M-Sport sorted their front aero better ?

Regarding the earlier discussion about the more developed front aero on the 2017 Fiesta WRC... this quote from Autosport today:

"Wilson's 2017 Fiesta has already gained credit from industry insiders."

"Drivers such as Mattias Ekstrom - a man who has lived and worked in the high downforce DTM world for the last 16 years - called Cumbria to heap praise on Wilson's work and apparent aero expertise."

[GravelBen]

Autosport are automatic grovelling fans of anything British aren't they though? Probably just published an M-sport press release. ;)

(tongue in cheek but they do have a bit of bias there)

[dimviii]

eWRC-results ‏@eWRCresults · 1m1 minute ago

Daniel Ellena show us @MSportLtd Fiesta RS WRC 2017 testing to @ACM_Media @rallyemontecarl @OfficialWRC

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwgfHsyW8AA1nC6.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwgfHswXEAAP90M.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwgfHs_WEAAdtxC.jpg

[Andre Oliveira]

Luca Orusa fb

Video: https://www.facebook.com/luca.orusa.7/videos/1173108062724396/

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14963260_1173175789384290_2115864062964069993_n.jp g?oh=341615a3f3a78d50e3671c62e29258dc&oe=588C7DAB
https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14980732_1173175949384274_6542271423162288425_n.jp g?oh=ea953c821388b539ec041d36038e7e30&oe=589483FE

[EstWRC]

Ogier driving? :p


cant see the video on link

[seb_sh]

Regarding the earlier discussion about the more developed front aero on the 2017 Fiesta WRC... this quote from Autosport today:

"Wilson's 2017 Fiesta has already gained credit from industry insiders."

"Drivers such as Mattias Ekstrom - a man who has lived and worked in the high downforce DTM world for the last 16 years - called Cumbria to heap praise on Wilson's work and apparent aero expertise."

The biggest difference at the front seems to be the diveplanes (below the headlights). As far as I know that's an important element to provide a fair amount of downforce for not so much extra drag. DTM and WEC cars have those elements but I haven't seen them on the other '17 cars yet.

[dimviii]

Traxx - WR is Free ‏@Traxx_WiF ·

Evans with 2017 fiesta

@MSportLtd & @ElfynEvans testing the Fiesta #WRC 2017 in high altitude and Monte conditions #snow #ice #wrc2017 #RBDriver

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwhKrtkXgAATEzR.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwhKtdGW8AQ8-5d.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwhKvyCXgAAur0_.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwhKw7BW8AAWGpD.jpg

[EstWRC]

Interesting, and not with Dmacks?

[Andre Oliveira]

https://twitter.com/Traxx_WiF/status/794970396357525505

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14906861_1509353289094093_2557766385913799556_n.jp g?oh=8acd2345e8a53a7c5b665b4332ae186b&oe=589458B3
https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14992065_1509353285760760_5879027438485390114_n.jp g?oh=2240b13cce25b42482be3ff469ee574b&oe=588FDFD1
https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14910479_1509353329094089_8173767276031112779_n.jp g?oh=5e927fc120426361a92dc4489cda0735&oe=58973731
https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14937192_1509353332427422_5055264502890519201_n.jp g?oh=35e182bb74aa6c819a18f253ee902cff&oe=58898966

[Simmi]

Very interesting. Has to be good news for Elfyn. I guess getting his head around a 2017 car is more important than what tyres he is on for the moment.

[EstWRC]

https://twitter.com/planetemarcus/status/795170421683458048

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwkDQ-1XUAAwWcC.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwkDQ-3WgAAr_ny.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwkDQ-9WIAAwniH.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwkDQ_AXUAMSAj9.jpg

[A FONDO]

Noone dared to do a small climb to another turn?

[Andre Oliveira]

Pics of Daniele Araspi

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14925375_10154274348368952_5070066779564183691_n.j pg?oh=829dcb74f732d61761a233bc44f211c8&oe=588AADE8
https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14938113_10154274348348952_6229552360830011745_n.j pg?oh=29bdc2a6dd06d8ecc6a224d96107df5d&oe=58D56073

[Andre Oliveira]

https://www.facebook.com/gsbrallymotorsport/

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14953891_1732207820433150_2843599403895901134_n.jp g?oh=3aa37cda1bcac6a0120a103b797bbbe7&oe=58903C30
https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14906924_1732207927099806_8462963159632100501_n.jp g?oh=25a1db88adb559f066e980001342ba0f&oe=5896E48C
https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14956514_1732207943766471_2069193231203995456_n.jp g?oh=3368ce56ac364123f1d4e74d0f32c938&oe=5893E543

[dimviii]

more photos with fiesta 2017 at snow
https://www.facebook.com/gsbrallymotorsport/photos_stream?ref=page_internal

[Andre Oliveira]

https://youtu.be/IVtG62FoF-s

https://youtu.be/P30GJrMDrfo

[Andre Oliveira]

http://www.rallye-sport.fr/fiesta-2017-altitude/

http://www.rallye-sport.fr/wp-content/gallery/essais-ford-2017-evans/af-12-sur-1.jpg
http://www.rallye-sport.fr/wp-content/gallery/essais-ford-2017-evans/af-2-sur-1.jpg
http://www.rallye-sport.fr/wp-content/gallery/essais-ford-2017-evans/af-1-sur-1.jpg

[A FONDO]

Finally some HQ multimedia http://www.rallye-sport.fr/fiesta-2017-altitude/

[SubaruNorway]

Ok, we have 100 pics of the same hairpin now, find something new ;)

[dimviii]

Ok, we have 100 pics of the same hairpin now, find something new ;)

here we are with a video
https://twitter.com/Traxx_WiF/media

[big_sw2000]

That fast. There is something about that fiesta that reminds me of Pikes Peak. And I mean the car not the location

[bluuford]

here we are with a video
https://twitter.com/Traxx_WiF/media

That is THE sound :)

[Lundefaret]

That is THE sound :)

If rumours are correct, 2017 WRC cars are about 1 sec pr km faster than todays cars.
That is the same difference as between todays R5 and WRC!

Those who say that this is not the new Group B - those people r lyin´!

[bassist]

That is THE sound :)

Looks nice and quick!

[the sniper]

Is there an argument to be made for increasing the R5 restrictor from 32mm to 34mm to try and maintain/lessen the gap between 2017 WRC and the R5s? Basically the FIA adopting the R5+ spec that M-Sport came out with a couple of years ago, which they said meant an extra 30bhp.

[Mirek]

Those who say that this is not the new Group B - those people r lyin´!

How do You define new gr.B? In 80' the gr.B was was something totally out of this world. The cars had often 10x bigger power than common stock cars and higher than anything one could buy. Today everybody can buy a second hand car with 300-400 Hp for little money and try how it feels himself and those who have money can buy Bugatti Veyron or Königsegg CCX and have 3x the power of WRC car. I wouldn't compare that as today's WRC are not about brutal power combined with primitive transmission, bad suspension and tyres.


Is there an argument to be made for increasing the R5 restrictor from 32mm to 34mm to try and maintain/lessen the gap between 2017 WRC and the R5s? Basically the FIA adopting the R5+ spec that M-Sport came out with a couple of years ago, which they said meant an extra 30bhp.

If You want to make R5 cars a lor more expensive and a lot less reliable otherwise it makes no sense.

[dimviii]

That is THE sound :)

yes sounds and looks very fast. Cant wait for Monte.

[the sniper]

If You want to make R5 cars a lor more expensive and a lot less reliable otherwise it makes no sense.

Maybe, but it'd be interesting to know from someone running one how the costs and reliability of the Fiesta R5+ have compared to running the conventional R5 package.

[stefanvv]

How do You define new gr.B? In 80' the gr.B was was something totally out of this world. The cars had often 10x bigger power than common stock cars and higher than anything one could buy. Today everybody can buy a second hand car with 300-400 Hp for little money and try how it feels himself and those who have money can buy Bugatti Veyron or Königsegg CCX and have 3x the power of WRC car. I wouldn't compare that as today's WRC are not about brutal power combined with primitive transmission, bad suspension and tyres.

I understand Your point from regular customers PoV, but if we compare the models in production by power, AUDI Ur Quattro stock car had 197 bhp, while the rally version (S1 E2) - 450+ bhp (that is 2.5 times more power max). Fiesta 1.6 Ti-VCT (MK7-MK8) stock has 120 bhp vs. 360+ on the 2017 rally version (probably over 400 anyway), so this is 3 times more power at least.

[SubaruNorway]

I understand Your point from regular customers PoV, but if we compare the models in production by power, AUDI Ur Quattro stock car had 197 bhp, while the rally version (S1 E2) - 450+ bhp (that is 2.5 times more power max). Fiesta 1.6 Ti-VCT (MK7-MK8) stock has 120 bhp vs. 360+ on the 2017 rally version (probably over 400 anyway), so this is 3 times more power at least.

Hp isen't that impressive, it's the torque. I drive to work everyday with around the same HP as the current WRC :p

[stefanvv]

You didn't understood my point, but that's alright.

[GravelBen]

I understand Your point from regular customers PoV, but if we compare the models in production by power, AUDI Ur Quattro stock car had 197 bhp, while the rally version (S1 E2) - 450+ bhp (that is 2.5 times more power max). Fiesta 1.6 Ti-VCT (MK7-MK8) stock has 120 bhp vs. 360+ on the 2017 rally version (probably over 400 anyway), so this is 3 times more power at least.

A bit different to compare those because the Audi was based on a performance car to start with and the Fiesta is based on a shopping trolley.

If we compare Peugeot 205 T16 (shopping trolley based Group B car) at ~450bhp with the most powerful Peugeot 205 GTi at 125bhp its 3.6x as much power.

If you compare 2017 Fiesta WRC with Fiesta ST (use performance version to be consistent) then say 380bhp vs 180bhp is 2.1x as much power.

[stefanvv]

A bit different to compare those because the Audi was based on a performance car to start with and the Fiesta is based on a shopping trolley.

If we compare Peugeot 205 T16 (shopping trolley based Group B car) at ~450bhp with the most powerful Peugeot 205 GTi at 125bhp its 3.6x as much power.

If you compare 2017 Fiesta WRC with Fiesta ST (use performance version to be consistent) then say 380bhp vs 180bhp is 2.1x as much power.

No, AUDI Ur Quattro is not tuned model of an "regular" car, while Fiesta ST is, The same with Polo R. It is just at present You can buy tuned cars for less money than it was in 80's.

[RICARDO75]

A bit different to compare those because the Audi was based on a performance car to start with and the Fiesta is based on a shopping trolley.

If we compare Peugeot 205 T16 (shopping trolley based Group B car) at ~450bhp with the most powerful Peugeot 205 GTi at 125bhp its 3.6x as much power.

If you compare 2017 Fiesta WRC with Fiesta ST (use performance version to be consistent) then say 380bhp vs 180bhp is 2.1x as much power.

The most powerful Peugeot 205 was the T16 and not the GTI, with 1.800cc turbocharged engine and 200bhp

[Mirek]

Maybe, but it'd be interesting to know from someone running one how the costs and reliability of the Fiesta R5+ have compared to running the conventional R5 package.

Fiesta R5+ is not just R5 with bigger restrictor.

[Mirek]

The most powerful Peugeot 205 was the T16 and not the GTI, with 1.800cc turbocharged engine and 200bhp

Those were special homologation models for Gr.B supercars for God's sake. They existed only because of those gr.B cars. An average joe was driving 60 Hp car and a 400 Hp rallycar was something from Star Trek for him.


Hp isen't that impressive, it's the torque. I drive to work everyday with around the same HP as the current WRC :p

Current 1.6T WRC cars don't have any special torque due to the boost limitation. +/- 500 Nm isn't any impressive novadays.

[br21]

It's a lot more, maybe not x2 but over x1,5 for sure.



Maybe, but it'd be interesting to know from someone running one how the costs and reliability of the Fiesta R5+ have compared to running the conventional R5 package.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

No way are 2017 cars like Group B... its a totally different era.

Group B were 200 specialised, superlight, often mid-engined supercars with massive power over anything before them.

2017 are upgraded WRC's we have been watching for years.

Best thing about them and best GpB comparison is their sound.

[EstWRC]

Evans https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rmc6t3YS6Go&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duqzPCXsYo0

[Andre Oliveira]

In love with that Fiesta ��

[Fast Eddie WRC]

In love with that Fiesta ��

I just hope Mr Ogier is impressed ! ;)

[Lundefaret]

No way are 2017 cars like Group B... its a totally different era.

Group B were 200 specialised, superlight, often mid-engined supercars with massive power over anything before them.

2017 are upgraded WRC's we have been watching for years.

Best thing about them and best GpB comparison is their sound.

Each entitled to his own opinion :)

If you compare the Group 4 Audi quattro to the first Group B Audi quattro (the long one), and then that to the first S1, etc - you will see that everything did not happen over night in Group B.
And in the Lancia Stratos and Alpine 110 we earlier had cars that raised the bar with a great amaount when it comes to speed and exotica.
But off course, the most special Group B cars where very exotic - no doubt about it. But this is not my point.

1 sec pr km in the faster sections is a HUGE increase in speed on already crazy fast cars. These cars will be something REALLY special, and in speed they will have an immense impact.
So this - in my opinion - is the moder equivalent to the Group B, and will be the start of a very exiting era in the WRC.
I would almost like to call the new cars WRC+ :)
This is going to be VERY, VERY special indeed, and it will be talked about for many years to come :)

[sollitt]

I tend to agree Lunde.

[the sniper]

It's a lot more, maybe not x2 but over x1,5 for sure.

Ah okay, thanks for that. It's not really worth doing then for what would be relatively little gain.

[EstWRC]

nice gallery of Fiesta https://www.flickr.com/photos/mes_pictures/sets/72157676185846586/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

PlanetMarcus says Mads Ostberg is testing the 2017 Fiesta today.

[Andre Oliveira]

Rumour of Adapta could be true

[GigiGalliNo1]

C3 Testing in Wales now

[Essaj]

Looking at the speed of these new cars, specially M-Sport's since they seem to be only ones currently running aero packs close to the ones that they are going to use next year.
Makes me wonder if this is really the right way to take WRC.
Fans including me wanted a cars to be louder, have a more power (which they did) and more spectacular driving wise but I think they took a massive U-turn when they wanted to add DTM aero kits onto them, now the cars look like that they are getting ready for Pikes Peak or something.
Also makes me wonder that is it even possible to drive stages like Ouninpohja etc where the average speeds were almost too fast already this year.
I'm just hoping that this doesn't end the way it did in 1986 or even worse, car crashing into spectators.

[dimviii]

C3 Testing in Wales now


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwvLqa7XAAEe2TC.jpg

[Rally Power]

Looking at the speed of these new cars, specially M-Sport's since they seem to be only ones currently running aero packs close to the ones that they are going to use next year.
Makes me wonder if this is really the right way to take WRC.
Fans including me wanted a cars to be louder, have a more power (which they did) and more spectacular driving wise but I think they took a massive U-turn when they wanted to add DTM aero kits onto them, now the cars look like that they are getting ready for Pikes Peak or something.
Also makes me wonder that is it even possible to drive stages like Ouninpohja etc where the average speeds were almost too fast already this year.
I'm just hoping that this doesn't end the way it did in 1986 or even worse, car crashing into spectators.

WRC needs a revamp and having cars with a ‘wow factor’ is the easiest way to get it. ’17 cars are much safer than Gr.B’s, still the FIA and all rally organizers shouldn’t take the speed increase lightly.

Zero tolerance on spectators behavior, a sort of super license for ’17 cars drivers and a sensible choice of stage routes seems vital to make sure ’86 won’t happen again.

[big_sw2000]

Only thing I fear is faster cars are easier to crash. No matter how safe they are made. I just hope we don't see any extra cars wrapped around trees etc.
Saying that though I cant wait for 2017. These new cars have done it for me. Not only that, they appear to be a lot more side ways in the videos that are posted. Think we may have speed, and spectacular action next year.

Cant Wait

Steve

[Mirek]

WRC needs a revamp and having cars with a ‘wow factor’ is the easiest way to get it.

With less aero the cars would be likely both more spectacular and safer.


Zero tolerance on spectators behavior

That's completely unrealistic. At least half of the calendar composes of events with very free spectator control (if any). That applies even to many European events.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwvLqa7XAAEe2TC.jpg

Is that some new front aero on the C3 ?

Edit: No, checked the last C3 Test car and the aero was on that...

[dimviii]

the 2 fins at bumper corner like fiesta?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/34/69/Citroen_C3_WRC_Test_8_020_346936_580a063de.jpg
https://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/34/69/Citroen_C3_WRC_Test_8_002_346938_580a063e5.jpg
https://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/34/69/Citroen_C3_WRC_Test_8_001_346940_580a063ec.jpg
https://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/34/69/Citroen_C3_WRC_Test_8_004_346958_580a06428.jpg
https://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/34/69/Citroen_C3_WRC_Test_8_025_346960_580a06432.jpg

This is the previous car.. Test #8.

[dimviii]

Neuville testing 2017 car small clip
https://www.facebook.com/kuxo.gonzalesblanco/videos/10209904715166085/

[dimviii]

Mads testing 2017 fiesta
https://twitter.com/Traxx_WiF/media


and a small clip with Meeke testing c3 at Wales
https://twitter.com/stevie_mcphee

[MM WRC]

Also makes me wonder that is it even possible to drive stages like Ouninpohja etc where the average speeds were almost too fast already this year.
I'm just hoping that this doesn't end the way it did in 1986 or even worse, car crashing into spectators.

Well, that won't be a risk in Ouninpohja or elsewhere in Finland. The spectator areas are far enough from the road already now, and I guess even further next year. So at least there won't be a Joaquim Santos style accident...

What I don't like in these new regulations is trying to get rid of WRC car driving privateers. Because I'd prefer watching gentleman drivers in WRCs to watching them in R5s.

[EstWRC]

Tänak was also testing today https://twitter.com/ThibaultPascal/status/796039944816955392

[Fast Eddie WRC]

@MM WRC - It's proposed that Privateers will be able to drive 2016 WRC's.

[EstWRC]

Tänak today https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB3-RGXPAoY

[EstWRC]

Mads and Tänak https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJP9aPRr1Kc

[Essaj]

Well, that won't be a risk in Ouninpohja or elsewhere in Finland. The spectator areas are far enough from the road already now, and I guess even further next year. So at least there won't be a Joaquim Santos style accident...

What I don't like in these new regulations is trying to get rid of WRC car driving privateers. Because I'd prefer watching gentleman drivers in WRCs to watching them in R5s.

Yeah I agree that the spectator issue is not that big in Finland, but there is super fast stages in other countries aswell where the spectator safety is pretty poor.
And yes, privateers should be able to compete with the top cars.

Personally I wouldnt mind if R5's would be the top class. That way best national drivers could show their speed better in their home rallies, Also young talent would have way easier way to get to the paycheck when there wouldn't be a big gap (massive gap from 2017 on) between their cars vs the small amout of WRC cars there is available at the moment. Yes I understand that people want the WRC class to be something special and I kinda agree with that, but the way they are currently doing it is stupid imo.
I Don't know how we are going to get new drivers to show their true potential when winning rallies or even championships with R5 has almost no meaning.

[EstWRC]

Simone Vazzano ‏@SVrally 4m4 minutes ago
#WRC @MadsOstberg tests in the night the #Ford Fiesta RS Wrc 2017 @MSportLtd.

https://twitter.com/SVrally/status/796069517571096576


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cww08FOXgAAEg1a.jpg

[EstWRC]

Tänak https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-1f-_Z58GE

nice fast places

dont listen it with your headphones, you will be deaf

[dimviii]

wow^

[Rally Power]

And yes, privateers should be able to compete with the top cars.

Honestly, do you think it's safe to put one of these in Bertelli’s hands? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-1f-_Z58GE

[EstWRC]

aannndd another one, Mads and Tänak https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IxYEHI1qqM

[denkimi]

Honestly, do you think it's safe to put one of these in Bertelli’s hands? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-1f-_Z58GE
of course, bertelli would drive it a lot slower.

in the end its the driver who has his foot on the throttle. they will only drive it as fast as they think is possible.

[Essaj]

Honestly, do you think it's safe to put one of these in Bertelli’s hands? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-1f-_Z58GE

No, and you should start reading my posts as a whole. Im not sure if it's safe to put those machines to anyones hand when they are pushing to the limit and trying to win rallies. Rally cars are going to be too fast next season.
Hopefully next season dosen't end to a huge accident which might kill a whole sport. I don't see any manufacturer to stay in WRC if they have to start with a new regulations once again.

[Andre Oliveira]

By night: https://www.facebook.com/100000701810747/videos/1314611515238896/

[Mirek]

Tänak https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-1f-_Z58GE

nice fast places

dont listen it with your headphones, you will be deaf

Wondering if with these new cars and high aero-dependency we'll see less cutting. Theoretically it might be better to stay on the road.

[Essaj]

of course, bertelli would drive it a lot slower.

in the end its the driver who has his foot on the throttle. they will only drive it as fast as they think is possible.

Dosen't matter whose driving but accidents happen, and from those speeds... It's going to be ugly.

[Rally Power]

Hopefully next season dosen't end to a huge accident which might kill a whole sport. I don't see any manufacturer to stay in WRC if they have to start with a new regulations once again.

Aren't you being a drama queen? Tragic rally accidents can happen even with a Fiat 500.

Again, the risk increase is manageable if spectator control, driver eligibility and route selection standards get a proper attention, as I believe they’ll get.

[seb_sh]

Seems that even on tarmac the new cars slide even with the extra downforce. On both gravel and tarmac it's not a "throw the car sideways" type of driving but there's more powersliding on the exit. I guess the extra power plays a role in that.

[smsgrafica]

Let's be honest, it'll maybe be the best car, but the C3 is really ugly...

The Fiesta looks way better!

[Essaj]

Aren't you being a drama queen? Tragic rally accidents can happen even with a Fiat 500.

Again, the risk increase is manageable if spectator control, driver eligibility and route selection standards get a proper attention, as I believe they’ll get.

Of course tragic accidents happen, but WRC in current state can't handle one.

But that's not the only problem here, for me the Golden age of rallying was around 1999-2007 when the Cars were easily recognizable, they looked incredible on the stages going sideways, flying, they were fast enough and loud. There was many drivers who were able to fight for the victories, we had people who just drove tarmac or gravel events.

We're just getting further away from that. What I have heard about aero kits for next years, cars are almost un-reconizable from their road car ones with their massive wings.
Now with DTM like cars which are too dangerous to give to someone who haven't had enough practice with them. I don't know how we're going to have new talent to rise from R5's to new WRC's. This will only lead to a situation where people like Camilli will rise since they have butt load of money and real talent to quit since they have no way to reach to the top.
Fingers grossed for Lappi, would be a shame if VW situation is going to fk up his WRC seat for next year, which would add to even more to my case about wrong turns on the future of the sport.

And you as a Portuguese should tell us others how to handle spectators since it's so well under control in there -.-

[stefanvv]

With increased downforce and active diffs will be more difficult for the cars to go off

[Essaj]

With increased downforce and active diffs will be more difficult for the cars to go off

Im not sure if it's going to work like that. There is more to the car which is going to make drivers to try even harder, drivers are always trying their hardest which eventually is going to lead someone to go over the limit.
Crashes happen even in 100hp 2wd rally cars, but when you add 300 more horsepower and a massive aero kit to it, the crash which might be happening is going to be a massive one. That's a sad fact.

Edit: Also better cars wont prevent the fact that car failures can always happen.

[dimviii]

Meeke wales test 9
its really ugly.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwwsTOfWgAIj5Vi.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwxZhv2W8AEpyqV.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwxZhv0XAAAd6Tt.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwxZhv1W8AE-CZg.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwxZhv1XgAAyfpS.jpg


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwxV8e8WQAExasV.jpg

[Mariusz]

Im not sure if it's going to work like that. There is more to the car which is going to make drivers to try even harder, drivers are always trying their hardest which eventually is going to lead someone to go over the limit.
Crashes happen even in 100hp 2wd rally cars, but when you add 300 more horsepower and a massive aero kit to it, the crash which might be happening is going to be a massive one. That's a sad fact.

I still don't get it. When you go let's say 50 and go off how the crash of 400 hp car will be massive? Why would it be different if the car had 100 hp only? Top speed of 2017 cars will be probably the same because of that bigger aero kits.

[stefanvv]

Im not sure if it's going to work like that. There is more to the car which is going to make drivers to try even harder, drivers are always trying their hardest which eventually is going to lead someone to go over the limit.

Speed will increase that's for sure, but also the car stability. No one knows for sure until we see it in action, but I believe there won't be a problem, just an opinion, as is Yours.

[smsgrafica]

Cars usually don't crash in a straight line. Since cornering speed will be higher next year due to more HPs and aero, if an accident happens, it'll be for sure bigger than today.

[stefanvv]

Rally accidents will always happen. That's inevitable. Will it be bigger than todays, hmm I guess we don't know yet. How do You define bigger?

[smsgrafica]

I'll make a quick example:

Today you can drive round corner #1 at, let's say, 100km/h. You try at 101km/h and you'll crash.

Tomorrow you'll be able to drive round that very same corner #1 at 120km/h. You try at 121km/h and you'll crash.

So the chance to have a bigger impact will be higher tomorrow than it is today.

[stefanvv]

I'll make a quick example:

Today you can drive round corner #1 at, let's say, 100km/h. You try at 101km/h and you'll crash.

Tomorrow you'll be able to drive round that very same corner #1 at 120km/h. You try at 121km/h and you'll crash.

So the chance to have a bigger impact will be higher tomorrow than it is today.

Let me make a quick estimation:

How do You define the risk increase for the car, crew, trees (I presume the spectators will stay well in safe as of now though, more or less)? I see only risk for trees with bigger chance to be chopped off (this isn't much of a waste if we consider the Amazon forest danger every day).

[smsgrafica]

You're joking, aren't you? The higher the impact speed, the higher the risk of injuries...

[stefanvv]

You're joking, aren't you? The higher the impact speed, the higher the risk of injuries...

No I'm quite serious actually. Cars will be wider and additionally strengthened. That will decrease the significance of the impact, but my question remains - how do You define how bigger the impact is in that case?

[Essaj]

I see only risk for trees with bigger chance to be chopped off (this isn't much of a waste if we consider the Amazon forest danger every day).

So are you saying that next years cars will just chop the tree in half if it hits them? We do have sad examples from impacts with trees and they aint beautiful.. I don't even want to bring them up more than this...

[smsgrafica]

Wow, just wow... It's basic physics... But I'll make it easy for you, with two extreme videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oPVESVlhPU
80km/h impact with a 1999 Ford Focus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7dG9UlzeFM
200km/h impact with a 1999 Ford Focus

[stefanvv]

OK, nothing more to say.

[Zeakiwi]

At least there are accident data recorders to help work out what went wrong.
https://www.fiafoundation.org/our-work/motor-sport-safety/projects/accident-data-recorders

[Rally Power]

And you as a Portuguese should tell us others how to handle spectators since it's so well under control in there -.-

No idea what -.- means, but I’ve no problems saying how spectators control works in Rally de Portugal: only real rally fans watch it!

After the 80’s a strong safety campaign was launched and spectator’s behavior started to improve, but the real advance was in 2007, when we got back WRC. The organizers were pretty clear: in order to keep WRC in Portugal, spectators should be faultless and follow the strict safety rules.

It wasn’t easy to get used to access roads blocked, restricted spectators areas or being constantly upset by dozens of marshals and police agents, but we all understood those rules were necessary and now we happily obey them. The hooligans, the village idiots or any of the others non Petrolheads that couldn’t comply leaved, and no one misses them.

If it was possible in Portugal to turn wild crowds into responsible spectators, for sure it can be done everywhere.

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13263675_584821798355834_2143451691162558072_n.jpg ?oh=f3349e7841bd2eef9e0f3e80ea4c52f7&oe=58C86837

[Mirek]

The increased risk with higher cornering speed is indisputable as it's pure physics and near non existent strenghtening of the body (the prototypes seem to have pretty common rollcages) makes no difference in comparison to the kinetic energy growing with a square of speed. On the other hand I am quite sure that the works drivers can handle it.

Main cause of tragic accidents is anyway violent rear-axle rebound on bumps or jumps and that's something where WRC cars are actually pretty safe due to long travel and very good dampers. Gr.N cars with very small travel and driven rear axle or anything with torsion beam rear axle is a lot worse in such situations.

[Rally Power]

Btw, isn’t the criticism on ’17 cars a bit over the head?

Till recently everybody felt WRC cars were annoying and they should be replaced. When the first ’17 protos tested, many found them still too close to current cars; later it was said they would be glued to the road and provide no spectacle; now the problem is that they’re too fast…

Jesus…rally fans are hard to please!

[Essaj]

No idea what -.- means, but I’ve no problems saying how spectators control works in Rally de Portugal: only real rally fans watch it!

After the 80’s a strong safety campaign was launched and spectator’s behavior started to improve, but the real advance was in 2007, when we got back WRC. The organizers were pretty clear: in order to keep WRC in Portugal, spectators should be faultless and follow the strict safety rules.

It wasn’t easy to get used to access roads blocked, restricted spectators areas or being constantly upset by dozens of marshals and police agents, but we all understood those rules were necessary and now we happily obey them. The hooligans, the village idiots or any of the others non Petrolheads that couldn’t comply leaved, and no one misses them.

If it was possible in Portugal to turn wild crowds into responsible spectators, for sure it can be done everywhere.

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13263675_584821798355834_2143451691162558072_n.jpg ?oh=f3349e7841bd2eef9e0f3e80ea4c52f7&oe=58C86837

Yeah I know it's been way better after 80's like it's been anywhere else. Something still makes me think that Portugals spectator safety is not really up there but to be honest I havent been able to follow rally portugal in a few years. But I do remember that atleast in Fafe (might have been when it was run separately from WRC event) the spectators were still in pretty mental places.

[stefanvv]

Btw, isn’t the criticism on ’17 cars a bit over the head?

Till recently everybody felt WRC cars were annoying and they should be replaced.

Yeah, they should have been replaced by segment D cars. Now I'm trolling.

[stefanvv]

dont listen it with your headphones, you will be deaf

What are You talking about? It is on different planet with different gravity (possibly a black hole nearby).

[Rallyper]

Yeah, they should have been replaced by segment D cars. Now I'm trolling.

For the competition and more drivers to compete to each other R5 should be better. Agree with Mirek on this.

[EstWRC]

Tänak https://youtu.be/tDFo7uWq53c
https://youtu.be/4jgwey8ecWI

[stefanvv]

The increased risk with higher cornering speed is indisputable as it's pure physics and near non existent strenghtening of the body (the prototypes seem to have pretty common rollcages) makes no difference in comparison to the kinetic energy growing with a square of speed. On the other hand I am quite sure that the works drivers can handle it.

Divided by 2 to be more precise:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/edcanvas-uploads/98916/local/1388195940/KineticEnergy.gif
This is the graph of similar weight vehicle (Tesla roadster):
http://www.solarjourneyusa.com/Pictures/Kineticenergyvsspeed.jpg

So if we take an example of speed increase from 100 to 110 at some corner, which seems realistic, that's about 0.03 kWh. Can't the wider and strengthened doors handle to swallow it? The rollcage is the same ok.

[EstWRC]

Stop it already, enough.

[smsgrafica]

I don't think it's a case of if they'll swallow it. It's a fact that the impacts will be bigger, since the cars will be quicker. So there you'll have more danger to hurt someone.

IMHO the cars should drive more spectacularly, not being quicker in the corners.

[Mirek]

So if we take an example of speed increase from 100 to 110 at some corner, which seems realistic, that's about 0.03 kWh. Can't the wider and strengthened doors handle to swallow it? The rollcage is the same ok.

What matters is the change not the absolute number which tells You exactly nothing (I am sure You have no idea what structure You need to dissipate 0,03 kWh - so have I). In relative numbers a WRC car with the crew going 110 km/h instead of 100 km/h has 21% higher kinetic energy and that is what matters.

Anyway we are way off topic and I agree with Rally Power that the safety factor is pushed way too far in here especially since we have no relevant information. Throwing some bullshit numbers around and acting like we know what they mean is good for nothing.

[stefanvv]

Fast forwarded videos like this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-1f-_Z58GE aren't good for something either.

[GravelBen]

Throwing some bullshit numbers around and acting like we know what they mean is good for nothing.

Never usually stops anyone on internet forums though! :p

[Andre Oliveira]

Ott: https://youtu.be/tDFo7uWq53c

Snow conditions: https://twitter.com/traxx_wif/status/796298692198334468

[SubaruNorway]

Fast forwarded videos like this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-1f-_Z58GE aren't good for something either.

Looks natural to me

[Franky]

It's the Youtube high frame rate ;)

[N.O.T]

Fast forwarded videos like this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-1f-_Z58GE aren't good for something either.

LOOOOL

Its just a 60 fps 1080p video, its how the WRC should be on TV. But instead those useless trash dogs prefer to force feed us their 480p 30fps crap and consider advancement in TV a more comprehensive coverage of the award ceremony, but if the simpleton welsh like it then why not ?

[stefanvv]

It's the Youtube high frame rate ;)

That's it, I don't play with youtube settings much, but should consider it for the future.

[bluuford]

So, Wilson is reading this forum.. couple of days ago we were talking about asphalt experience of some drivers.. next day we have testing videos of the same persons on asphalt :P

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw14sQjXAAY2O2l?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw14sQmXAAYZV5Q?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw14sRLXUAQ9Uz8?format=jpg&name=large

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw1twEmW8AAkhyg?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw1txLUWEAAjsc_?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw1txLQWIAADFCG?format=jpg&name=large

[Andre Oliveira]

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lce9jd_wWc

[EstWRC]

Rally Sweden Monte Carlo style :) ...great test for Tänak, basically had all conditons on both days like Monte has.

[Franky]

These lovely conditions remind me of N.O.T's favourite poster in the Toyota garage - http://www.hs.fi/webkuva/taysi/960/1476589820387?ts=302

[EstWRC]

nice gallery of citroen test https://www.facebook.com/KuceraPhotography/photos/a.1508239392525425.1073741906.557878514228189/1508239605858737/?type=3&theater

https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/15025411_1508239605858737_6443328882804420570_o.jp g

[EightGear]

Neuville in Spain. The rear wing looks quite high.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161109/8c19166fab1d252e0be8f59b7ebf9340.jpg

[BigWorm]

Neuville in Spain. The rear wing looks quite high.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161109/8c19166fab1d252e0be8f59b7ebf9340.jpg

Looks like a completely new wing?

[Lundefaret]

nice gallery of citroen test https://www.facebook.com/KuceraPhotography/photos/a.1508239392525425.1073741906.557878514228189/1508239605858737/?type=3&theater

https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/15025411_1508239605858737_6443328882804420570_o.jp g

Citröen doing some imense work on the aerodynamics. This is test car #9, and every one of them has had changes - impressive. Now focus seems to be on front downforce and air flow around fenders.

Rear wing: Very advanced. Mounting is "GT prototype style" on top, the top plane has a "wavy" form to be optimised for the air stream, but prob also make it work as best as possible when the car has an angle of attack.
Have side boards.
Have a separated lower spoiler, wich prob works together with the diffusor and the underside.

Rear fenders: Going away from the Polo/Hyundai esque "boxes", the fenders are more "classic" fender flares, but with advanced aerodynamics, with air outlet and "air controllers".

Front fenders: Now with more "Ford esque" canards/front spoiler. Air outlet and "air controller" and "boosted" wheel well by inlets by the head lights. This pr in an effort to balance front/rear downforce (work on higher front downforce).

Diffusor/rear: Still extended, but looks shorter, if thats the case its prob to balance downforce forwards. Bigger "holes" behimd the rear wheels.

Car starting to look very "developed", and the deletion of Citroën DS3 design ques like the plastic around the fenders etc shows the intent. This car is going to be very good.

[stefanvv]

Citröen doing some imense work on the aerodynamics. This is test car #9, and every one of them has had changes - impressive. Now focus seems to be on front downforce and air flow around fenders.

Rear wing: Very advanced. Mounting is "GT prototype style" on top, the top plane has a "wavy" form to be optimised for the air stream, but prob also make it work as best as possible when the car has an angle of attack.
Have side boards.
Have a separated lower spoiler, wich prob works together with the diffusor and the underside.

Rear fenders: Going away from the Polo/Hyundai esque "boxes", the fenders are more "classic" fender flares, but with advanced aerodynamics, with air outlet and "air controllers".

Front fenders: Now with more "Ford esque" canards/front spoiler. Air outlet and "air controller" and "boosted" wheel well by inlets by the head lights. This pr in an effort to balance front/rear downforce (work on higher front downforce).

Diffusor/rear: Still extended, but looks shorter, if thats the case its prob to balance downforce forwards. Bigger "holes" behimd the rear wheels.

Car starting to look very "developed", and the deletion of Citroën DS3 design ques like the plastic around the fenders etc shows the intent. This car is going to be very good.

Wow, quite an analysis. Somebody on the forum said the aero package is not that important.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Wonder why Citroen are just getting their advanced aero on the C3 now ?
M-Sport who were last to have a 2017 car to run had it's aero on from scratch...

[Lundefaret]

Wonder why Citroen are just getting their advanced aero on the C3 now ?
M-Sport who were last to have a 2017 car to run had it's aero on from scratch...

They have added piece by piece, its called development..

[EstWRC]

one more of Mads/Tänak https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5imNL8sLfw

[dimviii]

nice photo with Tanak

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw4p6R8WIAAE9ij.jpg:large

[Fast Eddie WRC]

They have added piece by piece, its called development..

So M-Sport developed all their aero in a wind-tunnel and fitted it to the car in one go, but Citroen had to do theirs on the car and test each part a piece at a time ?

I read that M-Sport have been praised for their aero-work

[Mirek]

You don't work in any sort of technical development, right?

[Simmi]

So M-Sport developed all their aero in a wind-tunnel and fitted it to the car in one go, but Citroen had to do theirs on the car and test each part a piece at a time ?

I read that M-Sport have been praised for their aero-work

I think it's a case where we've seen two completely different development curves. Citroen did all those early tests with a focus on testing parts, engines, suspension, internals etc. So aero wasn't an immediate priority. I'm not an expert but I also think there's been a degree of waiting to see what the other manufacturers would do. To my untrained eye once the Toyota came out everyone's rear wing/aero changed etc. VW, Hyundai and Toyota have also evolved visually each time we saw them.

Because Ford's new car (not counting the mule) debuted what, three and a half months, after #Test1 they didn't have the luxury of developing in stages.

Doesn't one car is better than the other. You just work to the timeline you have.

[Mirek]

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lce9jd_wWc

It looks like the front splitter sends a lot of snow on the windshield. It may be one downside of the new aero package because I don't know how such effect could be limited. I'm waiting to see some footage from Swedish-like testing.

[J_n_z]

Is it possible (by rules) that aerodynamic would be race specific or even stage specific... I think that team would homologate a super downforce version and remove certain parts to make it work for certain situation? Or homologate different bumpers and wings?

Can we expect cars to be a little more sideways in mid and slow corners because aerodinamic will stabilizate rear at high speed, so rear suspension setup can be little more flickable?

[seb_sh]

I think it's a case where we've seen two completely different development curves. Citroen did all those early tests with a focus on testing parts, engines, suspension, internals etc. So aero wasn't an immediate priority. I'm not an expert but I also think there's been a degree of waiting to see what the other manufacturers would do. To my untrained eye once the Toyota came out everyone's rear wing/aero changed etc. VW, Hyundai and Toyota have also evolved visually each time we saw them.

Because Ford's new car (not counting the mule) debuted what, three and a half months, after #Test1 they didn't have the luxury of developing in stages.

Doesn't one car is better than the other. You just work to the timeline you have.

I was thinking the same thing, Citroen may be advantaged by the early testing of the "basic" parts. It reminds me of the 'negative' example of Seat who had a badly balanced base that they tried to compensate with tricks in the active diffs. So Citroen may have a good approach in trying to get a good base before they add more advanced aero elements.

Also over the season it's possible the aero will converge as they copy each other's design, provided this is allowed by the rules. Ford initially came out with more advanced aero but I guess the rest are now putting the final elements on the cars. Especially the front diveplanes beneath the headlights I think give a good amount of downforce and the lack of those elements is probably why we saw a lot of the cars initially jumping with the nose high in the air. Citroen's early tests in Finland come to mind.

[stefanvv]

There is no drama here, VW were testing 17' car for more than year, but only 2-3 months ago changed/developed completely the aero design.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://www.facebook.com/BastienRouxPhotographie/posts/691393221019397

https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14980559_1514578151904940_145996990078801611_n.jpg ?oh=4f37e2481912767f00ef003e31ef1844&oe=58C6E96F
https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15032138_1514578218571600_86922361811222379_n.jpg? oh=0957b079eacca81dfd926dc1ded204d6&oe=58D17C59
https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15032051_1514578148571607_4897788397643492082_n.jp g?oh=9c5d584a6da6842ef92373d80350e9aa&oe=588CA1C2

[Mirek]

From these photos one can see that the splitter also fills the radiator with snow. Together with the higher power it may be a serious issue especially for the first starter.

[tommeke_B]

Maybe they'll have this 0-car in Monte. :D

http://www.mtmtech.cz/editor/filestore/Image/univerzalni-pluhy-nove/CaseMaxxum110%20UP30Vysocina11-2011051.jpg

[Andre Oliveira]

Maybe Latvala get the job ;)

http://cdn-7.motorsport.com/images/mgl/6bRWzJw6/s8/wrc-rally-finland-2016-jari-matti-latvala-volkswagen-motorsport-with-a-competition-tractor.jpg

[Andre Oliveira]

From these photos one can see that the splitter also fills the radiator with snow. Together with the higher power it may be a serious issue especially for the first starter.

This test is very good for M-Sport before homologation ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

You don't work in any sort of technical development, right?

Do you have to to be a rally fan ?

It was a a genuine question re the very different aero development of the two cars.

[Mirek]

Mine was too.

[dimviii]

Camilli
https://youtu.be/Een58mfH6Z4

[Andre Oliveira]

https://twitter.com/traxx_wif/status/796795337612623873

Proper atmosphere Monte-Carlo

[smsgrafica]

Camilli
https://youtu.be/Een58mfH6Z4

Is it me or is Camilli all over the place? It seems as if the power was too much to handle for him.

[Andre Oliveira]

WOW look that: https://twitter.com/rourebel/status/796838902690709504

[dimviii]

Is it me or is Camilli all over the place? It seems as if the power was too much to handle for him.

yes specially at first passes.
https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/15039641_1304637776234976_1157661518537564409_o.jp g

[Mirek]

yes specially at first passes.

Monte Carlo testing footage is always tricky as it's rarely possible to know which tyres or which kind of setup they use. For Monte Carlo it's necessary to test all imaginable combinations even pretty stupid ones because very often shit happens.

[stefanvv]

I don't think it comes down to settings.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tofrallye29/albums/72157676340184445
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5600/30875668155_097b6507e4_b.jpg
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5680/30875666215_42e256a247_b.jpg
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5441/30787202261_4529e8b052_b.jpg

[dimviii]

from a guy was present at test.

Last test day of the Fiesta with many stops and therefore little taxiing. First of all there was a breakage of the box at about noon, they left 3 hours later before again to recreate quite quickly. Compared to Tanak last Tuesday, Camilli is much more spectacular but also less efficient.

[EstWRC]

Meeke https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAeAe3yg6-k&feature=youtu.be

[EstWRC]

Camilli https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOvPfTD8LCg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py7zbEFKZJM
Sordo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwL2ukwjbyE

[EstWRC]

this site claims that Tommi had a nasty crash while testing for Monte and was taken to hospital for checks

https://translate.google.ee/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=et&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.worldrallyisfree.com%2F2016%2F1 1%2F11%2Fdeux-yaris-wrc-en-tests-une-crashee%2F&edit-text=

http://www.worldrallyisfree.com/2016/11/11/deux-yaris-wrc-en-tests-une-crashee/

[AMSS]

this site claims that Tommi had a nasty crash while testing for Monte and was taken to hospital for checks

https://translate.google.ee/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=et&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.worldrallyisfree.com%2F2016%2F1 1%2F11%2Fdeux-yaris-wrc-en-tests-une-crashee%2F&edit-text=

http://www.worldrallyisfree.com/2016/11/11/deux-yaris-wrc-en-tests-une-crashee/

True, car back in Finland for bodywork..

[bassist]

Meeke https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAeAe3yg6-k&feature=youtu.be

Great video.

[Mirek]

True, car back in Finland for bodywork..

Assuming it's not something serious BUT what if it was? In my opinion it's not very professional to combine the position of team principal with a test driver because an injury during test accident can virtually paralyze the team operation in crucial moments where fast acting is needed (for example in a fight for Ogier). That applies even more for egocentric structure like the one of Tommi.

[Andre Oliveira]

Camilli on the limit: https://youtu.be/A-mcz7rKC5c

[dimviii]

Camilli on the limit: https://youtu.be/A-mcz7rKC5c

omg,lucky boy...

[EstWRC]

Meeke day two https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faetcYi4kyc

[big_sw2000]

omg,lucky boy...

Christ that could of been a mess. Fair play


Steve

[AL14]

omg,lucky boy...

He just saved his Montecarlo start over there :D

[smsgrafica]

Get him out of the car quickly... :D

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Give Camilli a break... its tricky conditions and he hasnt had much time in the new car. It shows he was pushing and maybe the downforce of the Fiesta did its job. He didnt crash and his videos have been great to watch.

[dimviii]

Breen

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxAdRzlWgAQM9DI.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxAdR3dXAAAWM9Q.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxAdSX5WgAASsFc.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxAdRzlWIAAW9b-.jpg

[N.O.T]

Give Camilli a break...

he is using too much break already, so i do not think he needs ours as well.

[EightGear]

he is using too much break already, so i do not think he needs ours as well.
Brake*

[br21]

With Camili it looks more scary than it really was, so no big deal

[bassist]

Meeke day two https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faetcYi4kyc

Was that any where near Resolven??

[OldF]

That applies even more for egocentric structure like the one of Tommi.

Are you a psychologist or on what is your claim based on.

[AL14]

Are you a psychologist or on what is your claim based on.

On the fact that he is testing himself the car instead of doing the team principal like all the others? Or maybe the fact that he has his giant poster driving the car of a competitor in the official garage? :)

[EstWRC]

Camilli including that nearly off and another mistake https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKN3n1VocWc

[EstWRC]

i think this hasnt been here, Camilli https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrLkuhRkpP4

[dimviii]

TGR_WRC ‏@TGR_WRC

Meanwhile, our #Toyota #Yaris #WRC carry on with an intense tarmac testing programme! How does it looks?
#WorkHard #TGR_WRC


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxUVoJaUoAAJcZK.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxUVtuAUcAAJ7ln.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxUVvPkUAAEK50I.jpg

[maciotacio]

Any info who's testing?

[tomhlord]

TGR_WRC ‏@TGR_WRC

Meanwhile, our #Toyota #Yaris #WRC carry on with an intense tarmac testing programme! How does it looks?
#WorkHard #TGR_WRC


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxUVoJaUoAAJcZK.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxUVtuAUcAAJ7ln.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxUVvPkUAAEK50I.jpg

Look how far the doors stick out now. Not seen that on any of the other 2017 spec cars...?

Interesting idea.

[dimviii]

photo from previous test,totally different front bumper.Also different bigger roof scoop,and no door mirrors at last photos

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxUoA7kWQAAknCa.jpg

[Lundefaret]

Look how far the doors stick out now. Not seen that on any of the other 2017 spec cars...?

Interesting idea.

Can be for safety. Interesting.

[Andre Oliveira]

Toyota: https://youtu.be/B99bmD0FU8I

[BigWorm]

Any info who's testing?

Juho according to RallyingUK on Twitter

[Simmi]

Look how far the doors stick out now. Not seen that on any of the other 2017 spec cars...?

Interesting idea.

Yeah it's for the new regulated side impact honeycomb protection. You could see the VW get wider in the last evolution but this is way more pronounced on the Toyota.

[EstWRC]

nice article about M-sport last week test

https://translate.google.ee/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=et&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autonewsinfo.com%2F2016%2F11%2F 15%2Fpremiers-essais-dans-les-hautes-alpes-en-france-pour-la-nouvelle-ford-fiesta-rs-2017-210913.html&edit-text=

[Andre Oliveira]

Allready here :)

[dimviii]

nice article about M-sport last week test

https://translate.google.ee/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=et&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autonewsinfo.com%2F2016%2F11%2F 15%2Fpremiers-essais-dans-les-hautes-alpes-en-france-pour-la-nouvelle-ford-fiesta-rs-2017-210913.html&edit-text=

ok its testing,but so many problems for new fiesta.Hope to solve them in time.

about the 15km/h faster at corner entry I don't want to comment...

[EstWRC]

do not worry dimviii

Andre Oliveira: Ogier will put Fiesta RS WRC one level above the others.

[EstWRC]

pictures of Breen testing...the front now looking fiesta like

https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/15123103_1095710467165290_3706458201044809653_o.jp g



more https://www.facebook.com/pg/gritpicsrally/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1095709053832098

[Franky]

The designer who came up with the front lights design/placement should be fired for good.

[N.O.T]

The designer who came up with the front lights design/placement should be fired for good.

Well the road version has ladyboys and women as their market pool so you cannot blame the WRC team for the design.

[Franky]

Well the road version has ladyboys and women as their market pool so you cannot blame the WRC team for the design.

I wasn't talking about the WRCar design team

[dimviii]

Hanninen again
https://youtu.be/i15FHzJVDQk

[EstWRC]

this site is sayin that Suninen is testing too https://twitter.com/Traxx_WiF/status/798929725091708928

[rogef]

Today Toyota Yaris

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62nCCsG0HKw

[KKS]

Today Toyota Yaris

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62nCCsG0HKw
Suninen not impressed

[dimviii]

Suninen not impressed

???

[KKS]

too slow and boring drive from white one.

[Mirek]

Maybe You wanted to write impressive instead of impressed? It has a different meaning ;)

[stefanvv]

Maybe You wanted to write impressive instead of impressed? It has a different meaning ;)

Well, may be he wasn't impressed, how do You know?

[KKS]

I will sleep with vocabulary tonight :D

[stefanvv]

It won't help You, but if You wish.....

[Simmi]

I didn't realise Toyota were testing those two cars at the same time. Side by side aero comparison I guess? Can't remember seeing a rally team do that before. Potentially M-Sport may have done it when they were pictured with two test cars a few weeks ago.

[Andre Oliveira]

M-Sport tested the mule with 2017 spec car too

[pantealex]

so far no pictures proofing that Teemu Suninen was that other driver...
it could have been Jarkko Nikara also, he has contract with Tommi (as has Mikko Hirvonen also)

[RICARDO75]

so far no pictures proofing that Teemu Suninen was that other driver...
it could have been Jarkko Nikara also, he has contract with Tommi (as has Mikko Hirvonen also)

These pictures were taken this morning. Who took it mentions the name of Sunninen


https://twitter.com/TeemuSuninenRac

[RICARDO75]

Sunninen testing Toyota

[dimviii]

today videos

https://youtu.be/3s_s1Ajhnhw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02IdKKsP3iw

[dimviii]

Ruben Otero @RubenOteroDo · 15m15 minutes ago
eur-lex.europa.eu eur-lex.europa.eu

It seems that the Toyota Yaris WRC had its problems during today's test in Spain. #WRC Photo: Ezequiel Sánchez

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cxf4nByWgAAMjJD.jpg


[smsgrafica]

today videos

https://youtu.be/3s_s1Ajhnhw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02IdKKsP3iw

Looks like it's even slower than '16 cars...

[rogef]

I do not think so. But by the videos it is difficult to compare. What is certain is that the car has not been tested near the limit as the tests of the other brands in which in the test videos walk with the cars in the limit. It has not been seen in the movies of the yaris tests. Maybe for the pilots. Do not know.

[dimviii]

till now we haven't see it so fast.Car seems to be very slow inside the corner.

[er88]

My wife could get close to driving that car faster than how it's being driven in some of those clips. Would like to see the arse being driven off the car and it pushed to its limits. That seems to be the plan the other teams have...

Maybe I've missed some clips, but I also can't recall seeing a video where that Toyota launches off from a standstill. Are they afraid to show the public how poor the acceleration is or something?

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[A FONDO]

Is this Toyota R3 or what?!??! This is the worst project of the motorsport history. Remember when VW and then HD entered the sport, how many enjineers they stole and what facilities they prepared. Here the main test driver is a long-retired one with technological experience from 15 years back (3-4 WRCar generations back). Also imagine what will be their infrastructure in the distant events. Two tents and one generator at 3kW.

[Franky]

Yes, SlowSon, Finland is a 5th world country. Entire nation lives in huts and they just learned to make fire.

[rogef]

That's not what it's all about. In terms of structure will be great, as in WEC with everything that is right and well organized. The car is not as bad as you might think. They just do not show it in the videos, that's what I do not understand.

[OnlyRally]

That's not what it's all about. In terms of structure will be great, as in WEC with everything that is right and well organized. The car is not as bad as you might think. They just do not show it in the videos, that's what I do not understand.

Who does not show it in the videos?
How do you know the car is not that bad?


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk

[rogef]

Who does not show it in the videos?
How do you know the car is not that bad?


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk

I do not know, but I have this perception. What I see in the movies is that the car is not pushed to the limit in many situations. Soon it will be faster than it shows in the videos. At least I think.

[OldF]

I haven’t seen this much jealousy and hatred in this forum before.

[EstWRC]

i dont see hatred. i actually think the people who make these kind of comments here had huge hopes about the project but after they saw the videos and some people leaving the team they are just disappointed.

[N.O.T]

I haven’t seen this much jealousy and hatred in this forum before.

just wait and see when the season starts boy, this is nothing.

[Franky]

i dont see hatred. i actually think the people who make these kind of comments here had huge hopes about the project but after they saw the videos and some people leaving the team they are just disappointed.

And the fact that they haven't turned the whole testing year into a long publicity campaign.

[rogef]

I also do not understand the hatred that many people are showing for the project.

Yes, but maybe because they did not make a big campaign of their entry into the WRC people did not get so much attention and trust in them. In my opinion I think a lot of people are already discarding them including the media, but it will not be that way.

They may be playing with it in order to make it a surprise factor.

[Mirek]

I don't think that it's hatred. More or less it's a disappointment with basically anything which comes out on public.

Anyway if some car appears slow on test footage is it more realistic to assume that
a) it is slow
b) they drive it slow in purpose to trick others
c) all other test footage is speed-up

What is a realistic point of view and what is only clutching at straws?

[er88]

I haven’t seen this much jealousy and hatred in this forum before.
I want them to prove me and all the doubters wrong. I want them to succeed. However you can't be shocked to see folk slating them and having worries when you read and see what's going on. The car doesn't look 'right'. I mean they've only properly started proper tarmac testing with a month or so to go before homologation (unless they did lots of secret testing that nobody saw).

[rogef]

I don't think that it's hatred. More or less it's a disappointment with basically anything which comes out on public.

Anyway if some car appears slow on test footage is it more realistic to assume that
a) it is slow
b) they drive it slow in purpose to trick others
c) all other test footage is speed-up

What is a realistic point of view and what is only clutching at straws?

The point is that the car does not always seem slow in the videos. There are times when the car seems very fast (at the other level), but most of the filming (going from the car in the movies) goes slow and not at the limit like most of the other teams' videos, in which in filming the cars appear To be guided to the limit or very close to it.

I can not believe that in movies where the Yaris appears to be guided slower it goes on the edge or close to that.

:)

[N.O.T]

at the moment i am split between 2 things

1. Do i want them to flop mid season so i can have a nice laugh at their short minded unprofessional and amateurish way of doing things ?

OR

2. Do i want them to flop after 2 seasons of embarrassment so my spite is satisfied ?

hmmm...

[BigWorm]

at the moment i am split between 2 things

1. Do i want them to flop mid season so i can have a nice laugh at their short minded unprofessional and amateurish way of doing things ?

OR

2. Do i want them to flop after 2 seasons of embarrassment so my spite is satisfied ?

hmmm...

A happy outcome is worth waiting for?

[N.O.T]

A happy outcome is worth waiting for?

Happy outcomes usually come by proper planning, equal opportunities and hard work.

So no...

[Rally Power]

On this video the Yaris doesn’t look slow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gibN30wRRjg

Maybe the engine is still lacking some torque, but the chassis seems already pretty balanced.

Considering what Makinen and his team have achieved in so little time, people should praise a bit more their efforts. For sure they aren’t at the level VW showed before entering WRC, but they seem to be more or less on Hyundai’s pre WRC stage.

The jealously and hatred that motivated such a negative prejudgment over Makinen’s team are difficult to understand, but it’s funny to see that most of today’s critics were much more complacent when the project was developed by TMG, a structure that factually has failed in motorsport for more than a decade...

[BigWorm]

Happy outcomes usually come by proper planning, equal opportunities and hard work.

So no...

But if they do neither of these you should be satisfied? ;)

[er88]

The car sounds amazing, and tbf in that last video it looks like it's being driven properly. The clips that were uploaded in the last few days made me think a few OAPs had taken over driver duties ;)

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[maciotacio]

Just a stupid question. I could have missed that info. Has Michellin already homologated 2017 tyres ? All those testing sessions are on new or this years tyres?

[EstWRC]

should be this years tyres.

[maciotacio]

Thanks.
So maybe thats why Team Finland are lift and coasting in the corners, cause Makkinen life's work is such a beast that they don't want to stress the tyres, you know accidents could easily happen. :cool:

[pantealex]

Reason for Toyotas current 2 car testing is "engine endurance", so they are driving lot of KM´s

http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ralli/art-2000002504638.html in Finnish

[dimviii]

Reason for Toyotas current 2 car testing is "engine endurance", so they are driving lot of KM´s

http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ralli/art-2000002504638.html in Finnish

from videos I watched with the white car,most of time is without als,how they will see engine durability without the stress of antilag?
camo yaris is almost always with antilag engaged.

[rogef]

Another interesting video from Yaris

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIedV5QqK_c

[big_sw2000]

Another interesting video from Yaris

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIedV5QqK_c


I'm sure there is a video of the Fiesta testing on that exact same stage early in the thread

Steve

[OnlyRally]

On this video the Yaris doesn’t look slow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gibN30wRRjg

Maybe the engine is still lacking some torque, but the chassis seems already pretty balanced.

Considering what Makinen and his team have achieved in so little time, people should praise a bit more their efforts. For sure they aren’t at the level VW showed before entering WRC, but they seem to be more or less on Hyundai’s pre WRC stage.

The jealously and hatred that motivated such a negative prejudgment over Makinen’s team are difficult to understand, but it’s funny to see that most of today’s critics were much more complacent when the project was developed by TMG, a structure that factually has failed in motorsport for more than a decade...

It really is Mäkinens team, the pictures of the lancer on the wall, all of his friends working there, only finns driving and so on. It allmost that you forget about the Toyota part.


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk

[AndyRAC]

The jealously and hatred that motivated such a negative prejudgment over Makinen’s team are difficult to understand, but it’s funny to see that most of today’s critics were much more complacent when the project was developed by TMG, a structure that factually has failed in motorsport for more than a decade...

Does winning the FiA WEC 2 years ago count as failure???