TG paid KK $10 million?

[Rex Monaco]

Autoweek is stating that TG paid $10 million dollars for CC intellectual property and will be out up to $30 million once the CC teams accept his offers.

Sorry no link. But you are welcome to come to my house and read my copy.

[indycool]

I don't know where the $10 million figure came from but the $30 million is based on an unattributed statement by Curt Cavin in the Indianapolis Star that the IRL was going to pay for cars and engine leases for the CC teams.

The $10 million is probably right. Nation said it was less than TG bid in the CART bankruptcy, which was $13.3 million.

The $30 million, who knows?

[Marbles]

Sorry no link. But you are welcome to come to my house and read my copy.

I can swing by tomorrow. How do you take your coffee.

[veeten]

like they say on eBay,...

"shop victoriously". :D

:p :

[Rex Monaco]

I can swing by tomorrow. How do you take your coffee.

Black, 4 sugars. Do you want bagels, donuts or pastries?

[pits4me]

I don't know where the $10 million figure came from but the $30 million is based on an unattributed statement by Curt Cavin in the Indianapolis Star that the IRL was going to pay for cars and engine leases for the CC teams.

The $10 million is probably right. Nation said it was less than TG bid in the CART bankruptcy, which was $13.3 million.

The $30 million, who knows?

You of all people surprise me IC. Instead of going into denial just do the math.

Two cars promised per team - 1 new + 1 used (~$800,000 total)
1 yr Honda engine lease per team - (~$950,000)
That's almost $1.8 million per entry.

Then there's the $1.3 million purse guarantee for a minimum of 10 new CC teams. $18 million + $13 million = $31 million.

The good news is as much as $15 million could be offset with forthcoming ICS title and associate sponsorship announcements. With the fragmentation off the table, the corporate ROI is much clearer in 2008 than in the days of Pep Boys.

[veeten]

which makes that $15 million, an increase of 1.2 million over the estimated amount that Nation gave and $16 million off from the calculation pits gave.

still, quite a nice ROI there.

[timshag]

which makes that $15 million, an increase of 1.2 million over the estimated amount that Nation gave and $16 million off from the calculation pits gave.

still, quite a nice ROI there.


That is a bargain.
You can't buy the motivation and expereince of the support personel, drivers, administration,
and team infrastructure of the ChampCar teams for that much.

The purchase and investment potential of a unified series will pay for itself.
TG gets the award for having the most staying power.


KK and PG at least look like talkers.

[Chaparral66]

I can swing by tomorrow. How do you take your coffee.

I can bring by some leftover Budweiser from the ole Newman/Haas sponsorship days with Christian Fittipaldi. It's been hermetically sealed and kept in stainless steel keg on Funk & Wagnal's porch since Road America in 1996...

[pits4me]

I can bring by some leftover Budweiser from the ole Newman/Haas sponsorship days with Christian Fittipaldi. It's been hermetically sealed and kept in stainless steel keg on Funk & Wagnal's porch since Road America in 1996...

Back when Michaels main squeeze was in a cast.

[mikiec]

Autoweek is stating that TG paid $10 million dollars for CC intellectual property and will be out up to $30 million once the CC teams accept his offers.

Sorry no link. But you are welcome to come to my house and read my copy.

Bankruptcy quotes $6m to the CCWS owners, so it'd be more like $3m to KK.

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125306

[LTalbot]

I read $6 Million for ChampCar assets and $2 Million each to Kalkhoven and Forsythe to run the Long Beach Race and play nice in the IRL pond.

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/sports&id=6003764

[pits4me]

Bankruptcy quotes $6m to the CCWS owners, so it'd be more like $3m to KK.

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125306

Selective reading at its finest. You forgot the other $4m LTalbot noted. The corporate structure is well layered so it appears KK and partners get none of the $6m until CC debt is serviced. His Cosworth group is owed over $1m but not clear what's related to CC and what's related to Atlantics.

[!!WALDO!!]

http://www2.indystar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225264

For what it worth. Off to bed.

[mikiec]

Selective reading at its finest. You forgot the other $4m LTalbot noted. The corporate structure is well layered so it appears KK and partners get none of the $6m until CC debt is serviced. His Cosworth group is owed over $1m but not clear what's related to CC and what's related to Atlantics.

I didn't forget to mention it, but it's not for CCWS assets. It's a sweetener and will be reduced by the fact that KK & GF have to pay costs towards Long Beach...


The memorandum includes a non-compete covenant for Forsythe and Kalkhoven, who are each slated to receive an additional $2 million, provided they pay certain expenses associated with the promotion and operation of this year's Long Beach race; and show commitment and support of the IRL.

The point I was making is that the thread's headline is "TG paid KK $10 million" whereas it actually appears that TG has paid CCWS $10m, of which KK will get around half.

[Rex Monaco]

The point I was making is that the thread's headline is "TG paid KK $10 million" whereas it actually appears that TG has paid CCWS $10m, of which KK will get around half.

If we are going to play petty nit picking games, do you have proof that TG actually used his own out of pocket money to pay CCWS $10 million?

With that, I'm so very very sorry for not creating a title saying "IRL pays CCWS $10m".

[nigelred5]

I suppose it depends on how the ownership of the IRL is structured who paid whom what.

[weeflyonthewall]

This mergification is going to carry a $30+ million price tag when its done. That just covers the teams moving over. Nothing being said about keeping race promotors happy as the 2009 schedule gets nailed down.

[dataman1]

I guess we'll see if the BK court agrees with the price. They get to review all previous recent sales along with existing debts.

Why Chapter 11 which is for reorganization instead of Chapter 7 for liquidation?

[pvtjoker]

$10-30 million seems like a low price for a series. Then again who am I to say that $10-30 million is a "low price tag". I'd loved to have $10 million in ANY capacity. ;)

[pits4me]

I guess we'll see if the BK court agrees with the price. They get to review all previous recent sales along with existing debts.

Why Chapter 11 which is for reorganization instead of Chapter 7 for liquidation?

Maybe CC wasn't in as bad a shape as people would like us to believe. KK's partners reportedly didn't seem to share his lack of confidence in 2008.

If there was going to be unification, KK knew who had the aces. Tony had one trump card - Indy. KK can bring something much better, a populated grid, a better Indy showing, his Marquee event - Long Beach and international opportunity starting with Edmonton and Surfers.

If the total price is less than $50 million, TG will recover that quickly.

[Jag_Warrior]

$10-30 million seems like a low price for a series. Then again who am I to say that $10-30 million is a "low price tag". I'd loved to have $10 million in ANY capacity. ;)

I thought $33,000 was a "low price" to pay for a used Ferrari 328 in excellent cosmetic condition. But like many businesses, it's the upkeep and maintenance on mechanicals that really eats up the money. Realizing first year costs of 50% of the purchase price for service, etc. was too rich for my blood.

But as long as George can keep shelling out subsidies (or help teams find enough ride buyers), until the IRL has enough commercial value to justify sponsorships that meet team operating costs, he may see this as worth the risk and upfront cost.

[nigelred5]

I guess we'll see if the BK court agrees with the price. They get to review all previous recent sales along with existing debts.

Why Chapter 11 which is for reorganization instead of Chapter 7 for liquidation?

Because CCWS owns the Atlantic Series, so they have to stay in business, at least until they can form a new corporation. I would imagine it also preserves their place in ACCUS wouldn't it? They still have that series to try and run. I'm not so confident Atlantics will survive very long if they don't align themselves with ALMS or even the IRL very quickly. Also, chapter 11 protects them from an immediate court ordered sale doesn't it? They have a chance to work things out and re-structure their debts. Pretty convenient who the largest three creditors are. It was all of the operational expenses of self promoting, pay for TV time that the partnership apparently wasn't willing to foot. No Red Bull money for KK's team, no title sponsorship for the series, no title sponsorship for Toronto, etc. They simply say, the main series is operationally bankrupt, however the Atlantics will soldier on where they are able to. I saw something that it believe was simply a mis-quote about Mazda Atlantics being at the new track in New Jersey.

[!!WALDO!!]

Because CCWS owns the Atlantic Series, so they have to stay in business, at least until they can form a new corporation.

Actually Gerry Forsythe owned the Atlantics for years. He placed it under the Sanction of CART then the CCWS, so it is FIA recognized.

I believe since there are assets and liabilites then 11 but once it is all paid off then it will go 7 and close.