Support races '07

[Al_Green]

From the BRSCC calendar...

April
SCSA & Pickups + VSR, Alfa Romeo Championship, Fiat Racing Championship, Mighty Minis, Super Mighty Minis & LMA Euro Saloons.

June
SCSA & Pickups + Club Formula Ford, Club Formula 3, T Cars & Legends

July
SCSA & Pickups + Caterham Roadsports (x2), Monopostos & Formula Jedi

August (Ford RS Owners Club weekend)
SCSA & Pickups + VSR, Ford Saloon Championship & Ford Fiesta Championship

September
Ovalfest package TBC

Al.

[JDPower]

Thats a pretty mixed bag there considering they've had time to plan it this year (which was the excuse for the poor support last year). Great to see the Legends back, shame its just the one round. Wish they'd stick to a regular strong support, ideally VSR, Legends and a guest series - give a chance to build support for, and get to know, each series and its drivers. Just looks like filler to me, only negative thing I've seen thus far regarding this season.

[cgs]

a packed timetable for April then! i'm guessing some series will be Saturday only or Sunday only that weekend

[Chigley]

only negative thing I've seen thus far regarding this season.
:confused:

What the heck is negative about 15 different support series/championships!!!

Most drivers who race on circuits do so for variety and it is usually quite a bun fight to get the circuits they prefer. To stick to one circuit would not I believe give them the thrill and challenge to make a satisfying season. Would any drivers around care to comment?

Most of the attending public are not diehard oval supporters, they are motor racing supporters who like variety and different forms of entertainment. :) Within the scope of series/championships available to the BRSCC that is a bl**dy good cross section. Remember of all the newbie drivers who turn up at the Rock for support races some are likely to get the bug for the PuT or V8's which is only good for us.
:)

[pickup]

Thats a pretty mixed bag there considering they've had time to plan it this year (which was the excuse for the poor support last year). Great to see the Legends back, shame its just the one round. Wish they'd stick to a regular strong support, ideally VSR, Legends and a guest series - give a chance to build support for, and get to know, each series and its drivers. Just looks like filler to me, only negative thing I've seen thus far regarding this season.
I think you are spot on with the statement regarding regular support giving people the chance to follow a series through the season and becoming familiar with the cars and drivers.The formulas you have picked out would be ideal to support the SCSA/Pickup series as they are all entertaining and spectator friendly ie-single class close racing.
The main problem last season with the VSR's was the relatively low car numbers, again this is a good formula but it really does need a higher number of cars to produce good racing and after speaking to a few of its drivers last year it seems that for some reason Rockingham is not one of their favourite circuits and many of them don't want to race there. Hopefully this has been sorted and we get the numbers this season that we were told would race in 2006.
What happened to the Britcar racing that was coming to Rockingham? i can't see that on the calender.I really hope we get some good racing from these formulas listed but have to admit to being a bit dissapointed after reading about the great support championships the BRSCC were bringing along this year.

[pickup]

:confused:

What the heck is negative about 15 different support series/championships!!! :)

Maybe not negative but very confusing.

[/QUOTE]Most drivers who race on circuits do so for variety and it is usually quite a bun fight to get the circuits they prefer. To stick to one circuit would not I believe give them the thrill and challenge to make a satisfying season. :) [/QUOTE]

We are only talking about four rounds out of their season.

[/QUOTE]Most of the attending public are not diehard oval supporters, they are motor racing supporters who like variety and different forms of entertainment. :) Within the scope of series/championships available to the BRSCC that is a bl**dy good cross section. Remember of all the newbie drivers who turn up at the Rock for support races some are likely to get the bug for the PuT or V8's which is only good for us.
:) [/QUOTE]

The BTCC is probably the most succesfull british (saloon car) championship and i don't think they have 15 different series supporting them over the season.
I'm not sure JDPower meant to say the support racing would be negative it's just not what he and a lot of other people hoped to be racing on the Thunder Sunday programme.

[SteveA]

Myriad different forms of racing brings different types of fan, who see the quality of the venue and may decide to come back for other events. Its all good.

[acorn]

[quote="JDPower"]Great to see the Legends back, shame its just the one round. QUOTE]

what happened to the monthly shared dates package headlined by the pickups and legends that was being fine tuned? is that just for road courses(apart from this one rockingham date) or has that idea bitten the dust?


"Most drivers who race on circuits do so for variety and it is usually quite a bun fight to get the circuits they prefer. To stick to one circuit would not I believe give them the thrill and challenge to make a satisfying season. Would any drivers around care to comment?"

i think that "who race on circuits" is the telling phrase. a large part of the time in a large number of series the track is your only challenge so you have to go to different ones to make it interesting. get close competition and the layout becomes less important because you've got other things to occupy your mind. did racing on the same oval for 11 years bore me... no, because fending off the opposition kept me busy.

[turn 4 mad]

at the end of the day i dont care how many support races there are, just be thankfull to all the people behind the scenes that are making scsa happen, because without them there would be no scsa or support races.

[acorn]

ps on the "variety of circuits", how many different configurations can be used for the rockingham infield. surely the same configuration doesn't have to be used at every meeting

[pickup]

at the end of the day i dont care how many support races there are, just be thankfull to all the people behind the scenes that are making scsa happen, because without them there would be no scsa or support races.

I'm sure everybody IS gratefull to all the the people working behind the scenes to make SCSA happen thats why we're talking about it. We should care how many support races there are and what they are as it is all part of the Thunder Sunday package and as such will contribute to its success.

[pickup]

Great to see the Legends back, shame its just the one round. QUOTE]

what happened to the monthly shared dates package headlined by the pickups and legends that was being fine tuned? is that just for road courses(apart from this one rockingham date) or has that idea bitten the dust?


We might hear more on this at the meeting next week not to sure who's sharing the bill with the pickups on the road courses apart from two meetings when the big trucks are on, i think it's Pembrey and Brands Hatch.

[acorn]

15 different formulas isn't unfortunately the same as 15 entertaining formulas. with the barc holding such a strong portfolio of championships/series( btcc pickups and legends included iirc) and also owning /operating several tracks it does seem ( and i don't mean this as a slur on those who participate)that the brscc has been left with what the barc doesn't want.

[Dave17]

ps on the "variety of circuits", how many different configurations can be used for the rockingham infield. surely the same configuration doesn't have to be used at every meeting

The infield track used for the end of last season now seems the accepted layout. I've nothing against other layouts being used on a different weekend but NOT on the same weekend. Its hard enough to change from oval to infield without having to change infield tracks as well!

[Old Stock Nut]

As to the mix of fans, we should bear in mind the figure that Jeff gave us a few years ago about the current size of the market for motorsport in the UK. He said that there were probably no more than about 100K motorsport fans here. Take a big chunk of that out for the F1 only brigade and another big chunk for the clubbers who would probably (and rightly for them) not want to admit that they have even been to an oval meeting and the market shrinks to a probable total around the 5-10K mark at best. The only way for oval racing to survive is to generate interest outside of the regular petrol heads. Hence, multiple entertaining supporting events and sponsors that are outside the normal petrol head world such as McDonalds, Reebok, Kent Pharmaceuticals etc.

I think we should assume that the diehards are those who have been turning up at the Rock through thick and thin over the past year and we need to think of a wider audience if crowds are to be improved. The best idea is to get the sponsors properly committed to their drivers and they will then bring the new fans in. Taking a football analogy, our home team is sponsored by a brewery - they have lots of pubs and produce offers like "two tickets for a pound" to bring the punters in. Once in, it is up to the organisers to make them want to come again - bore them to death and they will not return. That is the challenge, and a hell of a challenge it is.

The supporting package must be entertaining before anything else. A sprinkling of cars racing round a big track might be entertaining to the drivers, but might not do anything for the crowd. A great big jet dragster bombing down the straight, upsetting the locals will get the kids more excited than minis purring round the road circuit. We can't afford to upset the nimbys, but we do need to think outside that box that has constrained motorsport in the country for years. For example, I know that racing sofas and garden sheds and the like are not for the purist, but they can be exciting for the crowd.

And, by the way, a great thank you needs to be passed to those who made sure that the series managed to keep going last year so that the challenge can still be there for this year!
(By the way, SCSA, PUTs and legends are inherently exciting anyway, so are exempt)

[Mysterious Rock]

are pickups confirmed yet? I heard at Autosport they may be going elsewhere?

[Dave17]

My plus points on the support...

Mighty Minis, Super Mighty Minis.... Always good fun!
Club Formula Ford.... Should be good grids this year with Ford putting more weight behind the Duratec engined series.
Caterham Roadsports.... what more can you say? Glad there comming to the Rock.
Formula Jedi..... Being a championship round should see a larger grid than last year.
Ford Saloon Championship ....My favorite club championship. Everything from converted ex WRC Escort Cosworths to indecently quick Mk1 and Mk2 Escorts and if you think Ka's are slow you ought to see the one in this series!
Ford Fiesta Championship.....better order more wreckers!!!

And the minus points....

T Cars....the worst of the "underage driver" classes
Club Formula 3....fast but still too expensive to get decent grids
LMA Euro Saloons.... a nothing formula. All the cars,what few there are, could easerly race in other championships.
So, with more pluses than minusesits got to be good!
My pick of the weekends? got to be the August one with the April one a close second.

[Dave17]

are pickups confirmed yet? I heard at Autosport they may be going elsewhere?

Who were you listening to...the bog cleaners http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/happy0194.gif (http://www.thesmilies.com)

[pickup]

15 different formulas isn't unfortunately the same as 15 entertaining formulas. with the barc holding such a strong portfolio of championships/series( btcc pickups and legends included iirc) and also owning /operating several tracks it does seem ( and i don't mean this as a slur on those who participate)that the brscc has been left with what the barc doesn't want.

Exactly right and along with the post from Old Stock Nut " The supporting package must be entertaning before anything else. " mirrors my views on support races.
The last posts i submitted on the old forum with referance to this subject were given a negative response by some people because i stated that the racing should be entertaining for spectators and they thought the racing was put on for the racer not the spectator.( how would that go down with the NASCAR supporters)
Anyway as i have stated before these are my own personal views but it's always nice to see others who are of the same opinion.

[Dave17]

It is very unlikely that EVERY race on the support will be top notch.

NASCAR Cup races do not have support races

What do you class as "entertaining"? Quality or quantity? I've seen many races with small grids that have turned out to be right corkers and directly opposite I've seen packed fields turn into procesions.

Talking of entertainment. I've just read on the BRSCC calander that the FFord festival at Brands will be on the 19th, 20th and 21st of October....oh and the Pickups will be there.

[JDPower]

what happened to the monthly shared dates package headlined by the pickups and legends that was being fine tuned? is that just for road courses(apart from this one rockingham date) or has that idea bitten the dust?
It wasn't just my imagination then, thought I had a vague memory of reading that but wasn't certain. Shame because the Legends were a perfect fit when they were regular support, and I still think the VSRs could be a perfect fit too if they can get the numbers back up.

On the subject of variety I'm sure I'm not the only one that notices most non-diehards don't actually sit and watch the random support races. Most get up and wander the pits, get something to eat, etc when theres some non-descript saloon race going on. Pickups and SCSA build a following with non-diehards because they can come and cheer for 'their' driver/car. As they get to know the different cars and drivers they get really interested in following it, that simply isn't gonna happen with club formula something or other, or saloon car thingy race.

[inamo]

I don't see anything wrong with that. Club motorsport is mostly for the participants - they get to race at a good venue, the spectators who are only interested in SCSA/pick ups have time to get lunch, wander round etc... I'm sure there have been complaints in the past that people missed the start of a race because they were getting lunch....

[acorn]

will be on the 19th, 20th and 21st of October....oh and the Pickups will be there.

not at pembrey then. just goes to prove that sonny's words on the pickups website (6 dec ) regarding the 2007 dates being provisional and to check back regularly should be heeded.

[LessThanSte]

Right, everyone wear a pair of shinpads to the august meeting to protect your legs when tripping over stupid front splitters, pokey-out exhausts and other associated paraphanalia. Looks set to be full of chavs, so im going to arrive early, like 8 am, eat my compulsory bacon and egg sandwiche and head over to my seat before they arrive so i dont get a sudden urge to punch one of them (or better still, stand on his splitter, hehe!)

Um, aside from that, nice to see the Jedi's are back, they were superb last year, so much so that i really do want one. Also nice to see the legends back in action :D

[pickup]

It is very unlikely that EVERY race on the support will be top notch.

We can but try.

[/QUOTE]NASCAR Cup races do not have support races.[/QUOTE]

I didn't say support races i said supporters, but don't the Bush cars and Craftsman trucks race on the same weekend bill?

[/QUOTE]What do you class as "entertaining"? Quality or quantity? I've seen many races with small grids that have turned out to be right corkers and directly opposite I've seen packed fields turn into procesions.[/QUOTE]

I agree but to the normal spectator a larger grid is more entertaining as they don't always appreciate racing skills and just like to see lots of action.

[/QUOTE]Talking of entertainment. I've just read on the BRSCC calander that the FFord festival at Brands will be on the 19th, 20th and 21st of October....oh and the Pickups will be there.[/QUOTE]

Excellent news LOTS (see above) of cars and very good racing. I have been to a FF festival before and really enjoyed it, one of my friends is a regular competitor.
There must have been a change of dates as this was the weekend we were supposed to be in Pembrey with the big trucks!

[pickup]

I don't see anything wrong with that. Club motorsport is mostly for the participants - they get to race at a good venue,

Just what we need.

[Sticker Rub]

Several of the support series were televised last season. Presumably they will be televised again this season so hopefully that may be a sign of a TV deal for ASCARs & PUTs.

[Mysterious Rock]

Who were you listening to...the bog cleaners http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/happy0194.gif (http://www.thesmilies.com)

no some guy on the brscc stand actually, when talking about the SCSA car there

[Chigley]

no some guy on the brscc stand

In other words you were eavesdropping, otherwise you would have known who was talking, and therefore as you didn't hear the full conversation you are therefore speculating again on incomplete information. I believe we have heard of MR speculation before, was any of it correct??? or is this just trying to muddy the waters again.

I'm afraid MR with your reputation I will ignore what you have posted AGAIN and trust in official news.

[Abo]

no some guy on the brscc stand actually, when talking about the SCSA car there

Ah, it's that old cock-knocker: Mysterious Rock!

[Mysterious Rock]

right, i dont know the guy but spoke to him with a couple of other guys, in fact from my pic you can just see there leg, yes the guy in orange, so chigley it werent overheard either. I checked the put website are the dates confirmed? no they are not they are still provisional. so i answered my own question

[Dave17]

Quote...(and my reply in brackets)
right,(Oooo are we getting annoyed) i dont know the guy but spoke to him with a couple of other guys,(three unknown guys then) in fact from my pic you can just see there leg,(YES, I recognize him now, you know, the guy with the leg) yes the guy in orange,(must be a one legged marshal,not you is it Ian?) so chigley it werent overheard either. I checked the put website are the dates confirmed? no they are not they are still provisional. so i answered my own question(not much point in posting then was it)

FYI all races are provisional right up until they take place.

I tell you what, we'll all go to Rockingham to watch the pickups and you go to...(I was going to put something else in there!) where ever you think they will be.

[JDPower]

right, i dont know the guy but spoke to him with a couple of other guys, in fact from my pic you can just see there leg
It wasn't overheard cos you can see his leg in the background of a photo!?!? :laugh:

[Sticker Rub]

are pickups confirmed yet? I heard at Autosport they may be going elsewhere?
Yes they are going elsewhere. As they did last season & seasons prior to that. In fact I hope they continue to go elsewhere, although I'll only be watching them at Rockingham for the rounds in between the "elsewhere" rounds.

[jonv]

In fact I hope they continue to go elsewhere, although I'll only be watching them at Rockingham for the rounds in between the "elsewhere" rounds.

I can really recommend watching them 'elsewhere' - especially if the elsewhere is Brands. Not as good as the Oval but still more entertaining than any other circuit formula.

[jonv]

As to the mix of fans, we should bear in mind the figure that Jeff gave us a few years ago about the current size of the market for motorsport in the UK. He said that there were probably no more than about 100K motorsport fans here. Take a big chunk of that out for the F1 only brigade and another big chunk for the clubbers who would probably (and rightly for them) not want to admit that they have even been to an oval meeting and the market shrinks to a probable total around the 5-10K mark at best. The only way for oval racing to survive is to generate interest outside of the regular petrol heads. Hence, multiple entertaining supporting events and sponsors that are outside the normal petrol head world such as McDonalds, Reebok, Kent Pharmaceuticals etc.

I think we should assume that the diehards are those who have been turning up at the Rock through thick and thin over the past year and we need to think of a wider audience if crowds are to be improved. The best idea is to get the sponsors properly committed to their drivers and they will then bring the new fans in. Taking a football analogy, our home team is sponsored by a brewery - they have lots of pubs and produce offers like "two tickets for a pound" to bring the punters in. Once in, it is up to the organisers to make them want to come again - bore them to death and they will not return. That is the challenge, and a hell of a challenge it is.

The supporting package must be entertaining before anything else. A sprinkling of cars racing round a big track might be entertaining to the drivers, but might not do anything for the crowd. A great big jet dragster bombing down the straight, upsetting the locals will get the kids more excited than minis purring round the road circuit. We can't afford to upset the nimbys, but we do need to think outside that box that has constrained motorsport in the country for years. For example, I know that racing sofas and garden sheds and the like are not for the purist, but they can be exciting for the crowd.

And, by the way, a great thank you needs to be passed to those who made sure that the series managed to keep going last year so that the challenge can still be there for this year!
(By the way, SCSA, PUTs and legends are inherently exciting anyway, so are exempt)

Good post!
I was at the Autosport show on Sunday (first ever visit) and was amazed at the size of the show and the number of people attending. There must be a market for Motorsport somewhere!

It seems the 2003 season was one of the most successful (and I appreciate the teams were heavily subsidised by Rockingham) and there was no races other than SCSA and Pickups. One thing I miss from these times is the larger gaps in the racing allowed much more time for the commentary team to interview drivers and team members. Of course at this time the live bands were bringing in some of the crowd and I dont think anyone has the budget available to take that risk again. I like the idea of getting car enthusiast clubs involved - should be much cheaper and convert to motor racing fans easier!

[jonv]

Right, everyone wear a pair of shinpads to the august meeting to protect your legs when tripping over stupid front splitters, pokey-out exhausts and other associated paraphanalia. Looks set to be full of chavs, so im going to arrive early, like 8 am, eat my compulsory bacon and egg sandwiche and head over to my seat before they arrive so i dont get a sudden urge to punch one of them (or better still, stand on his splitter, hehe!)

Um, aside from that, nice to see the Jedi's are back, they were superb last year, so much so that i really do want one. Also nice to see the legends back in action :D

See my previous post...we should embrace the Chav - they can become the next generation of motorsport fans!