How fast will C4 be?

[Finni]

One of the most burning question for the coming season is competitivenes of Citroen's new C4. This thread is for your opinion.

My guess is that C4 is not overally much faster than Xsara. In certain rallies it's probably bit faster but in some rallies it could be slower. What I have seen from the tests the car seems to slide much like 307. Both these cars (C4 and 307) have builded on same bottom construction (cannot recall the right word).
C4 could be difficult in tricky rallies like Norway and Sardinia. In fast rallies the car will be very good as 307 was; PSA cars traditionally has clear engine-power advantage over other teams. From the start 307 was very bad on asphalt due to wrong weigh distribution (common recognition of many sources). What I have heard with C4 weigh distribution is designed with opposite way to 307 (C4 has more weigh in the middle of the car). I believe that C4 is at its strongest on asphalt and it's more or less better balanced that 307 was.

Guy Frequelin has said that C4 is already faster than Xsara. If it's true will be seen. I can recall how before the seasons 2004 some sources from Peugeot said that 307 was almost second per/km faster than 206. In reality 307 was at best only marginally faster than 206 before 2004. We will know something after Monte but I think that we can do more excessive conclusions after snow rallies.

To sum up my guesswork: C2 is well competitive but not superior compared to others. Whether Loeb will win the championship withy it is down to him and down to reliability of the car.

[Lousada]

If it's only as fast as the Xsara, Loeb will still steer it to the worldchampionship.

[GruppoB]

Don't forget about reliability, just because its Citroen doesn't necessarily mean it wont brake.

[Finni]

Citroen has tested C4 longer than Ford has tested Focus. Based on previous fact Grönholm has said that he believes that C4 is reliable from the start. Altough it would be macigal work by Citroen if the car is from the start as invulnerable as Xsara. Test environment doesn't inevitably show all weak-points of the car which are manifested in races. We will see. My guess is that Loeb has only 1-2 technical major problems in coming season.

[A.F.F.]

If he has 2, that awfull percentage. That would double his problems with car. ;)

[GigiGalliNo1]

Both these cars (C4 and 307) have builded on same bottom construction (cannot recall the right word).


Chassis?


What I have heard with C4 weigh distribution is designed with opposite way to 307 (C4 has more weigh in the middle of the car). .

Center of Gravity? Škoda changed theirs and altered it when the Fabia came out. But the Octavia was a different car altogether.

[Daniel]

Even if the C4 is slower than the road going VTS version Loeb would still be at rally winning pace. If Jean Claude Vaucard has laid just a finger on that car it'll blow everything else off so easy it won't be funny.

[Daniel]

Both these cars (C4 and 307) have builded on same bottom construction (cannot recall the right word).

Floorpan

[Ranger]

It will be very fast.

[Tomi]

My guess is that it's a fast car, but not so easy to drive, and it might also have some problems in the beginning of the season.

[koko0703]

I think C4 will be fast enough to get Loeb in the title contention, but not so sure that it will be that dominant like Xsara in last 2 seasons. I think there will be good battles between Loeb and Macus followed by Petter and Mikko.

[Tom206wrc]

...
To sum up my guesswork: C4 is well competitive but not superior compared to others. Whether Loeb will win the championship withy it is down to him and down to reliability of the car.



Don't count out Dani Sordo !! :p :
The young Spaniard will hopefully show great things in his C4... ;)

[White Sauron]

Citroen has tested C4 longer than Ford has tested Focus. .

Yes. Citroen have been testing the car for more than one year. But at the same time Ford have been running car in REAL rallies all that time, and that makes difference!

[Woodeye]

Both these cars (C4 and 307) have builded on same bottom construction (cannot recall the right word).

The word you are looking for is platform.

And I really hope that the C4 is not going to be as superior as Xsara has been. It would be nice to see some battles again.

On the other hand, I hope that Ford is not going to be dominant either.

[Timole]

My guess is that it will be a car which will takse some victories, but Ford and Subaru will battle for Title.

[Zamppa]

Don't count out Dani Sordo !! :p :
The young Spaniard will hopefully show great things in his C4... ;)

We shall see. I'm not expecting much, but he just might stir things up on some tarmac events... He needs more experience to be a real challenger on gravel, though, especially when it comes to fast events. But the potential is there...

As for my guess on the C4... I'd be surprised(and annoyed) if it turned out to be as dominant as the Xsara from get-go. But somehow I have a feeling it won't be as good as the Xsara, and Loeb will have a real challenge in defending his title.

[JAM]

I expect a fastar car than the Xsara and that's why i predict a victory on dry tarmac at Monte Carlo. I will be a shame to the others but Citroen usually does his homework correctly.

Did you remember when the Xsara WRC made his first WRC appearence? A completely new car in a completelly new environment. Now is a car that is an evelution from the winning Xsara and the environment is not god. Ahh and the driver... well the best at the moment?

Hope to be wrong to the interest of WRC...

[ST205GT4]

I'm with whoever said if it's "only" as fast as the Xsara, Loeb will win his next WDC. I'll be amazed if it isn't at least as fast as the Xsara.

Ford were lucky that Loeb broke his arm. I'm happy for them that they managed to win something after so long, but they were lucky. If Loeb had still been driving they wouldn't have won the Manufacturers. So my prediction is Citroen....crickets....Ford/Subaru

[A.F.F.]

I expect a fastar car than the Xsara and that's why i predict a victory on dry tarmac at Monte Carlo. I will be a shame to the others but Citroen usually does his homework correctly.


Like with BX4CT :)

[Tom206wrc]

My guess is that it will be a car which will takse some victories, but Ford and Subaru will battle for Title.





You dream about Subaru :laugh:
Don't forget they'll have a new car from Mexico rally... ;)

[Timole]

You dream about Subaru :laugh:
Don't forget they'll have a new car from Mexico rally... ;)
Do not worry. Can´t wait Mexico.

[JAM]

I expect a fastar car than the Xsara and that's why i predict a victory on dry tarmac at Monte Carlo. I will be a shame to the others but Citroen usually does his homework correctly.

Did you remember when the Xsara WRC made his first WRC appearence? A completely new car in a completelly new environment. Now is a car that is an evelution from the winning Xsara and the environment is not god. Ahh and the driver... well the best at the moment?

Hope to be wrong to the interest of WRC...

Let's write this without errors :D

I expect a faster car than the Xsara and that's why i predict a victory on dry tarmac at Monte Carlo. It will be a shame to the others but Citroen usually does his homework correctly.

Did you remember when the Xsara WRC made his first WRC appearence? A completely new car in a completelly new environment. Now is a car that is an evolution from the winning Xsara and the environment is not new. Ahh... and the driver... well the best at the moment?

Hope to be wrong to the interest of WRC...

[Jaanus]

The C4 is not an evolution of the Xsara, it is a completely new car. Sure it will be faster than the Xsara on some stages, but overall it will be slower, Loeb himself admitted in Monte preview he does not have the same good feeling with the C4 as he had with the Xsara. Still it will be very fast car and probably a good challenge to Ford but I don't expect it to dominate like the Xsara did.
All in all we should be in for a nice fight and a very good season, perhaps best in years in terms of competition for wins. Hopefully Mikko and Petter will also win a rally or 2 and maybe even Sordo.

[FabiaFan]

Like with BX4CT :)
Or with Visa before !!! :-))) But those times (and models) are quite far away...

[jure dvorsek]

My opinion: Loeb is Nb.1 to win MC and 2007 championship! Let say that C4 is yust a bit faster car than xsara and nowebody, even Markus can not catch super Seb! OK, it is possible to overtake Seb on some events, but generaly no way!! Yust one thing, which can prevent Seb&Dani to be the best: RELIABILITY of this beatufile machine. Hope Citroën did not make same mistake as Subaru&Prodrive laste year.....

[Tom206wrc]

The C4 is not an evolution of the Xsara, it is a completely new car. Sure it will be faster than the Xsara on some stages, but overall it will be slower, Loeb himself admitted in Monte preview he does not have the same good feeling with the C4 as he had with the Xsara




It's pure intox from Seb to give false hope to Bosse, Petter and the others !! :p : :D

[ZequeArgentina]

I do not know what iformation you have for all these speculations.
All I can say, is recall Sordo´s words (which seemed to be real, not the "marketing-guided, and written " press releases:

Xsara used to drive more as a kart, very vivid and given confidence.
New car feels bigger, more "majestous", even driving position (higher) makes the car feel bigger.
And regarding reliability, Xsara was one fo the mot reliabel cars, it will be difficult that the C4 is that reliable.

[miksu]

i have only seen C4 on tarmac or once on snow. How about gravel? do we know anything how it behaves on gravel? I think Loeb's lack on confidence might come from that... as xsara was the easiest car to handle from all, and if C4 more difficult it could result Loeb not being able to push it to the limits on gravel.

[Helstar]

I only hope that it's not MUCH faster compared to the other cars (the active Xsara in spite of all because Gigi will drive one LOL !).
We want 5+ people battling for victories, not 2 (or less O_o; ...

[JAM]

Well, if the C4 is not faster than the Xsara, then Citroen didn't made his homework properly. Nothing more simple than that.

A new car is always faster than the previous car, otherwise is not an evolution. The reliability could be worst, but the speed must be better.

[1LM1]

Well, if the C4 is not faster than the Xsara, then Citroen didn't made his homework properly. Nothing more simple than that.

A new car is always faster than the previous car, otherwise is not an evolution. The reliability could be worst, but the speed must be better.

Very true but in rallying, it's still complicated to achieve this.
It's very difficult to have a car both faster and easier to drive.

In circuit racing, it's different. The evolution makes almost always the car faster. Even when the car is harder to drive, great drivers can cope with it and be fast.
In rallying, when the car seems to be faster in the first place but is not easy enough to drive, it's slower at the end of the rally.

Let's hope the C4 is easy to drive.

[Corny]

C4 will be faster and fastest, I'm afraid

[Tom206wrc]

First start of answer this thursday evening :p :

I would have said tomorrow, but shakedown isn't a good measurement of performance anyway... :mark:

[Brother John]

Who can here already say that C4 are the faster cars? Faster mean also more dangerous to go off the road or for accidents!!!
I hope there will be a good competition in 2007, that´s all. :s mokin: :up:

[MikeD]

I expect Grönholm to lead the championship after the first 3 rounds. After those very special rallies Loeb and the C4 will be strong enough to beat Grönholm. Fact is that Grönholm makes mistakes when Loeb puts pressure on him. It's not the same when it's the other way around. That's what makes Loeb strong.
Overall I expect the C4 to be fast and reliable enough to be able to win both championships.

[DonJippo]

It's maybe going to be much harder year for Citroen with C4 than most of us are expecting...

[Simmi]

I personally think it will look like a rocket ship on the Monte. But ultimately its the gravel rallies mid-season that will decide the championship. If the car is amazing on tarmac, that alone wont allow it to win. Bosse knows what he has to do this year he just needs to stay cool. Its swings and roundabouts and maybe Loeb will get a bit more of the bad luck this season.

It's an incredibly big thing is this car change. Loeb hasn't won a WRC round outside of the Xsara, the two of them were joined together into one winning machine. It will take time to find that again which must surely give the others hope.

[miksu]

plus that during these recent years, who has won championship after changing to a new car... there just has been so many examples of the new car being not so good as the last type being used... Makinen, Grönholm etc...Sorry, but im kinda pessimistic about C4's performance, especially on gravel, but lets see ;)

[harvick#1]

hopefully good enough to win every round :D

[Simmi]

Glory supporter!

[Brother John]

hopefully good enough to win every round :D


So you want to see an annoying championship again this year? :rolleyes:

[White Sauron]

So you want to see an annoying championship again this year? :rolleyes:

No, he wants administrations of rally to present smth round on every round and so that Citroen each time win this "smth round"... maybe a wheel?

[Simmi]

Smth round? I dont think we can really judge the performance of the car until about mid-season.

[harvick#1]

So you want to see an annoying championship again this year? :rolleyes:

I want to see Loeb and Sordo split every rally and tie

[Simmi]

I want to see Loeb and Sordo split every rally and tie


Must be an American thing lol?

[L5->R5/CR]

Must be an American thing lol?

If it is I didn't get the memo...

[harvick#1]

nor I :mark:

[JAM]

Very true but in rallying, it's still complicated to achieve this.
It's very difficult to have a car both faster and easier to drive.

In circuit racing, it's different. The evolution makes almost always the car faster. Even when the car is harder to drive, great drivers can cope with it and be fast.
In rallying, when the car seems to be faster in the first place but is not easy enough to drive, it's slower at the end of the rally.

Let's hope the C4 is easy to drive.

If my memory don't fail, i only remember one new car that wasn't faster then the previous model: The Mitsubishin Lancer WRC that replaced the Group A Lancer Evo. 6.5.

Usually a new car is a bit faster than the previous model. Reliability is something that is only achieved after a while and after a lot of work in real conditions

[Finni]

If my memory don't fail, i only remember one new car that wasn't faster then the previous model: The Mitsubishin Lancer WRC that replaced the Group A Lancer Evo. 6.5.


You forget 2006 model of Subaru wrc. It even was not faster but also slower than their two previous model. Also Subaru 2005 was scarcely any faster than their 2004 model.
----------

btw: I predict difficult snow rallies for Citroen. Especially norway will be difficult.

[JAM]

You forget 2006 model of Subaru wrc. It even was not faster but also slower than their two previous model. Also Subaru 2005 was scarcely any faster than their 2004 model.
----------

btw: I predict difficult snow rallies for Citroen. Especially norway will be difficult.

I think the Impreza WRC06 was a bit faster than the 2005 model. But this was when the cars hadn't problems, wich was a few times. So, the majority of times the car was with problems and wasn't able to have speed.

An example as the reliability could hide speed.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I bet the C4 will be dominant again. :rolleyes:

However I hope Ford and especially Subaru can challenge for wins.

[Halvard]

My simple mind is wondering about one thing.

Why did Citroen have to make a "brand new" rally car. I understand they had to change from Xsara to C4 because the Xsara does not exist any more. But, if its true, why do they make a new car. Why change something perfect. The 2005 Xsara was faster than all the other 06 models.

The Xsara and the C4 is almost the same size. Wouldn`t it be an idea to develope the Xsara car and adjust it into the C4 body. Or is this impossible. Or is this what they actually have done???

I understand why changing from Pug 206 to 307 was a big change, but that was to completly different models.

I`m just wondering and knows very little about it.

[aivan]

Well, if the C4 is not faster than the Xsara, then Citroen didn't made his homework properly. Nothing more simple than that.

A new car is always faster than the previous car, otherwise is not an evolution. The reliability could be worst, but the speed must be better.

Not necesarily... Nowadays marketing people have a say in forcing a team to launch a new car. We saw it with the 307

I think C4 will be fast for sure. Fastest? Who knows. Ford made a very good Focus last year and they won't be waiting with their arms crossed. They have put a huge amount of work in the Focus in the break for sure and probably made it better.

I feel Loeb will still challenge for the Chapionship but who knows...

It looks like we'll have a battle at last... come on Subaru, feel free to join :D

[miksu]

Today's sports magazine(IS Veikkaaja) here in Finland has a big story concerning how BAD the new C4 is....well i wouldnt take everything so serious what this particular magazine says, but here's some:

according to IS Loeb says in his french homepage(is it true?) like this:
- "The old Xsara is still more powerfull, faster and easier to drive than C4. With its basic qualities C4 isnt really an optimal rally car. It is longer and wider than Xsara, and also visibility from the car is worse."

also:
-"Ford must be better at the moment than C4."

There's lots of other stuff too, and they say how pessimistic Loeb is with his thoughts in this story. Maybe its just wise. He is also saying that he really would like to win Finland and Wales this year.

Thoughts from Juuso Pykälistö, who has been testing C4 on gravel "20 days on different kinda gravel surfaces, about 4000 km".
-"Reliabilty is the strongest point." He started testing it one year ago, and there has been no problems of any kind. He agrees that C4 is not so powerfull, handling well or easy to drive as Xsara, but says Citroen's team is very good, and listenes to driver better than other teams might.

well, i think it might be written with some finnish point of view, but thats pretty much what it says.

[Brother John]

I like the finnish vieuw! :D

[White Sauron]

I like the finnish vieuw! :D

Me too!

[Grany]

It's a pity that they have a bad translator or they take their dream for the reality. :p

http://www.sebastienloeb.com/html/actu/interview2006-sebastienloeb.htm

En fin d’année, tu as accumulé les séances d’essai avec la C4 WRC. Tout se passe comme prévu, malgré le retard dû à ton accident ?

Pendant ma convalescence, les essais ne se sont pas arrêtés. Les pilotes d’essai Citroën et Dany Sordo ont bien bossé. Ils ont essayé pas mal de choses. Certaines ont été conservées, d’autres non. Lorsque j’ai repris le volant, je ne l’ai pas trouvée transfigurée, il n’y avait pas de grosses nouveautés. Ce qui m’a rassuré, c’est que lorsque j’ai quitté les essais, j’avais un bon feeling avec la voiture. Quand je l’ai reprise en main, j’ai de suite retrouvé ce feeling. Au final, je ne pense pas que l’on ait perdu beaucoup de temps.

Quelles différences majeures as-tu notées entre la Xsara et la C4 ?

Au début, je trouvais que la C4 manquait d’agilité par rapport à la Xsara. Par contre, elle avait tendance à être plus stable. Nous avons travaillé sur la Xsara pendant 6 ans, elle est donc équilibrée à merveille. Cela devient dur de réussir à être plus en confiance dans une autre voiture, surtout quand la précédente a été développée autour de soi. Avec la C4, il y avait tout à refaire. Je pense que nous avons trouvé un bon compromis pour débuter la saison. Il nous faudra quelques courses avant d’être à 100% sur tous les points. Le verdict viendra en course car aujourd’hui, nous ne travaillons que sur la technique et sur les sensations, sur des routes que l’on connait par cœur. Nous n’avons pas de concurrence lors des essais, nous ne pouvons donc pas nous étalonner par rapport aux autres. Une voiture peut très bien être efficace en essais et difficile à piloter en conditions de course. Pour le moment, j’ai un bon feeling avec la voiture, on peut donc être optimiste. Mais je n’aime pas brûler les étapes, nous en saurons plus le 21 janvier prochain.

Cela n’a pas été trop dur d’adapter ton pilotage à la C4 ? La position au volant par exemple n’est pas la même dans les deux voitures.

Oui, c’est déroutant au départ, mais ce n’est pas trop gênant. C’est vrai qu’on voit un peu moins bien la route dans les virages serrés et je ne sais pas trop comment la voiture va réagir sur des spéciales « terre » lentes. Le problème risque d’arriver lorsque nous roulerons « à la découverte », on pourra être plus facilement surpris. Mais bon, on s’y habitue vite, d’autant plus que je ne suis pas retourné dans la Xsara depuis des mois sauf pour la ROC. Du coup, j’ai vite trouvé mes repères sur la C4.
En rallye, les WRC sont issues des voitures de série. La C4 n’est pas une voiture de rallye à la base. Elle plus longue, plus large et la visibilité est moins bonne que sur la Xsara. Ça ne représente pas que des avantages dans notre discipline. C’est à nous de nous adapter à la voiture et de travailler encore plus en essais pour compenser tout ça et rendre la C4 plus performante que la Xsara.

2007, une nouvelle saison, une nouvelle voiture, quatre nouveaux rallyes, à quoi t’attends-tu cette année ?

Je souhaite continuer sur ma lancée ! J’espère ne pas me recasser le bras, ni l’autre d’ailleurs. J’espère aussi qu’on pourra se battre une nouvelle fois pour les 2 titres mondiaux. Bref, ce sera une saison pleine d’espoir avec beaucoup d’inconnues. Une voiture neuve, une Focus qui sera certainement encore plus performante, quatre nouveaux rallyes en comptant le Monte-Carl. C’est vrai que cette année, il va y avoir beaucoup de nouveautés. J’ai confiance en mes ingés pour rendre la C4 la plus compétitive possible. Ils ont bien réagi dès le départ quand la C4 n’était pas au top. Ils ont déjà réussi à en faire une voiture saine. A force de travailler, on y arrivera. Mais la question est de savoir si on sera efficaces de suite, dès le début de saison.

Sorry, for the translation -> babelfish or others...


But I notice a funny thing, last year many people here thought Loeb would have many problems with the passive differentials. We saw the result...
Hmm think already to the predictions for 2008! :D

[Grany]

(...)
because the Xsara does not exist any more.(...)

Except in China and some other countries. ;)

http://www.citroen.com.cn/CCW/citroen/en/NewCars/PresentationVN?model=Xsar

[Simmi]

Maybe Loeb should just slow down a bit. If he's got the best interests of the WRC at heart lol!

[JAM]

Why did Citroen have to make a "brand new" rally car. I understand they had to change from Xsara to C4 because the Xsara does not exist any more. But, if its true, why do they make a new car.

Because the cars are differnte. The existent solutions are apliied to a new car (that's why i talk in evolution), but a lot of things are differente in C4. The engine is new, the bodywork is different and on this situation some of the good solutions aplied to Xsara don't work so well in a new and differente car.

They could had not done their homework correctly because the challanges in C4 could had been bigger... and maybe was impossible at the moment to do better.

In fact there are some things wrote about C4WRC that where unknown for me, wich makes m think that 2007 WRChampionship could be more interesting than 2006 :)

[gorgor_bay]

Today's sports magazine(IS Veikkaaja) here in Finland has a big story concerning how BAD the new C4 is....well i wouldnt take everything so serious what this particular magazine says, but here's some:

according to IS Loeb says in his french homepage(is it true?) like this:
- "The old Xsara is still more powerfull, faster and easier to drive than C4. With its basic qualities C4 isnt really an optimal rally car. It is longer and wider than Xsara, and also visibility from the car is worse."

also:
-"Ford must be better at the moment than C4."

There's lots of other stuff too, and they say how pessimistic Loeb is with his thoughts in this story. Maybe its just wise. He is also saying that he really would like to win Finland and Wales this year.

Thoughts from Juuso Pykälistö, who has been testing C4 on gravel "20 days on different kinda gravel surfaces, about 4000 km".
-"Reliabilty is the strongest point." He started testing it one year ago, and there has been no problems of any kind. He agrees that C4 is not so powerfull, handling well or easy to drive as Xsara, but says Citroen's team is very good, and listenes to driver better than other teams might.

well, i think it might be written with some finnish point of view, but thats pretty much what it says.

I wouldn't put much credit in such a paper. I'm french and have read what Seb said about his new car... And it's just everyday Seb talking: he's not pessimistic, he's just careful. He's always like that, unlike Peter Solhberg for instance that has the exact opposite attitude.

Let me treat you with a real translation of what Seb says about the C4, no kidding:



At the beginning, I thought the C4 was lacking agility as compared to the Xsara. On the opposite, she was tending to be more stable. We worked on the Xsara for 6 years, so she's wonderfully balanced. It becomes difficult to feel more confidence in another car, especially when the last one was being developed according to me. With the C4, everything was to be done from scratch. I think we found the good compromise to start the season. We will need a few races before reaching 100% on all the parameters. The sentence will come from the race because right now we are only working on the technique and feelings, on testing roads we know by heart. We have no opponents during testing, we thus cannot calibrate ourselves in comparison to the others. A car can be efficient during testing and hard to drive during racing. For the moment, I have a good feeling with the car, we thus can be optimistic. But I don't like to "burn the stages" (ie. go faster than the music), we will know more next 21st of January.

[Tom206wrc]

Today's sports magazine(IS Veikkaaja) here in Finland has a big story concerning how BAD the new C4 is....well i wouldnt take everything so serious what this particular magazine says, but here's some:

according to IS Loeb says in his french homepage(is it true?) like this:
- "The old Xsara is still more powerfull, faster and easier to drive than C4. With its basic qualities C4 isnt really an optimal rally car. It is longer and wider than Xsara, and also visibility from the car is worse."

also:
-"Ford must be better at the moment than C4."

There's lots of other stuff too, and they say how pessimistic Loeb is with his thoughts in this story. Maybe its just wise. He is also saying that he really would like to win Finland and Wales this year.

Thoughts from Juuso Pykälistö, who has been testing C4 on gravel "20 days on different kinda gravel surfaces, about 4000 km".
-"Reliabilty is the strongest point." He started testing it one year ago, and there has been no problems of any kind. He agrees that C4 is not so powerfull, handling well or easy to drive as Xsara, but says Citroen's team is very good, and listenes to driver better than other teams might.

well, i think it might be written with some finnish point of view, but thats pretty much what it says.





I don't believe a single word !!! :p :

Finnish Rally Mafia among journalists too, to try to put pressure on Bosse contenders shoulders !!! :laugh:

[koko0703]

Remember how the first rallies of Xsara WRC went??? Well it wasn't Loeb who was driving, but even great Citroen had some reliability problem although Xsara was fast with Puras and Bugalski. I think C4 will be the same, fast but unreliable at the begining. But as it piles up the mileage, it will be another great Citroen.

[Helstar]

We have no opponents during testing, we thus cannot calibrate ourselves in comparison to the others.
Errrrr ... this statement is weird, they HAVE the parameter by which they can make the comparison to the opponents. It's called Xsara ...

[grugsticles]

I have a feeing that the C4 will be pretty much on the pace from the outset. Loab is great at setting cars up and I very much doubt that he wouldnt be able to put the car on the pace from stage 1.

The only trouble that I can see Citroen having are minor mechanical ones.

[White Sauron]

Few more hours left to judge.... And then we'll see who was right.

[René]

:eek:

This journalist takes these dreams for reality! :D
Just a few hours of patience and maybe these dreams will become nightmares ! :laugh:

[Brother John]

Errrrr ... this statement is weird, they HAVE the parameter by which they can make the comparison to the opponents. It's called Xsara ...

:up: There are realistic members on this forum! :up: ;)

[Rollover]

There seems to be a really big interview on Loeb`s site in French. There really are those kind of quotes from Loeb what the Finnish magazine writes. Only needs to find them. It seems some French guys doesn`t want to find them...

[Tom206wrc]

Loeb saying the C4 is off the pace ???? Some of you really want to take their own dreams for reality !!! :laugh: :laugh:

[Rollover]

Now Petter Solberg says on the Norwegian site that C4 is not as good as Xsara. In Solberg`s opinion C4 seems not be as fast as Xsara especially on the bends.

[Halvis]

Now Petter Solberg says on the Norwegian site that C4 is not as good as Xsara. In Solberg`s opinion C4 seems not be as fast as Xsara especially on the bends.

http://www.vg.no/pub/vgart.hbs?artid=180599

What the article says, is that Petter (from looking at videos) says that it looks as fast as the Xsara on fast sections, but when there are turns and more difficult handling, it doesn't look as fast as the Xsara.

Pretty much the same as people in here has speculated in.

[JAM]

I will laugh a lot if at the end of first leg Loeb would be with the usual advance over the others like in Xsara days :D

[Rollover]

If Loeb wins Monte again it doesn`t prove much about C4 :s performance because Loeb is specialist of this rally. Of course it proves is C4 reliable or not? Only after the first gravel rallies we know better how good or bad C4 is.

[Tom206wrc]

I will start to worry if news come from France, but from Petter and Bosse's countries it rather makes me laugh :D

[A.F.F.]

I don't understand what to worry if Juuso Pykälistö has just said it's very reliable. If it is slower than Xsara at first, surely Citroen will develop the handling better, just like they did with Xsara. :confused:

C4 and Loeb will be there, right at the top of the game, as usual.

Only thing that might make things more interesting is if C4 turns out to be way more difficult to drive, like 307 was comparing to 206 and then Seb would need to push more to limit, hence take risks.

[Brother John]

I don't understand what to worry if Juuso Pykälistö has just said it's very reliable. If it is slower than Xsara at first, surely Citroen will develop the handling better, just like they did with Xsara. :confused:

C4 and Loeb will be there, right at the top of the game, as usual.

Only thing that might make things more interesting is if C4 turns out to be way more difficult to drive, like 307 was comparing to 206 and then Seb would need to push more to limit, hence take risks.

I Agree A.F.F. Let just wait a couple of month´s!

[Daniel]

Now Petter Solberg says on the Norwegian site that C4 is not as good as Xsara. In Solberg`s opinion C4 seems not be as fast as Xsara especially on the bends.
hhaahahahhaa

I hear the ladies are good to sleep with on mars. Mind you I've never done it with a martian but that's just what I think.

[Brother John]

For me all the wrc cars are to fast.
The F.I.A. just wait and just will react as there an terribly accident will happen with deadly result!
Maximum speed for wrc cars must be limited!

[Tom206wrc]

So...???
After 2 stages you and norwegian/finnish medias still say the C4 is off the pace ??? :laugh:

[René]

After 46,4 km :laugh:

Overall results
1 S. LOEB 23:29.9
2 D. SORDO +23.9
3 M. GRÖNHOLM +29.1
4 M. HIRVONEN +51.7
5 P. SOLBERG +57.6
6 C. ATKINSON +1:00.1
7 M. STOHL +1:01.7
8 T. GARDEMEISTER +1:06.1
9 J. KOPECKY +1:13.2
10 J. CUOQ +1:29.1
11 X. PONS +1:33.1
12 J. LATVALA +1:38.3
13 F. ROMEYER +1:55.8
14 G. MAC HALE +2:20.1
15 M. WILSON +2:36.7
16 H. SOLBERG +2:49.8

;( ;( ;(


Highly that Citroen finishes working on C4 so that it becomes powerful !

[White Sauron]

Monte is nothing to judge by. Even 307 WRC was competitive there in right hands.

[miksu]

I think its the same as he would have been driving with Xsara. Maybe its the same level with Ford, or not. Fords drivers are not very good on this surface. C4 seems to be good, at least on tarmac!! but its nothing phenomenal

[m.lowe]

http://www.rally-live.com/wrc/photos/imgactu/zoom07/loeb-mont-z-03_170107.jpg

[Ranger]

Christ it looks like it will be even LESS interesting than last year at this rate, judged on 46 km into the season. :\

[JAM]

I will laugh a lot if at the end of first leg Loeb would be with the usual advance over the others like in Xsara days :D

I'm laughuing since yesterday. Let's see how is second leg.

[Daniel]

And I'm laughing with you ;)

[spudrsca]

Well, let's see on gravel.
Don't forget that Citroën have the best tarmac drivers.

[Helstar]

I knew it ... Citroen is not stupid, if the C4 would have been slower than Xsara they'd never put on the road until it's at same level, at least.
Just a curiosity (I am not following much), is there somebody with a Xsara ? Stohl maybe ? Active or passive ?

[miksu]

I knew it ... Citroen is not stupid, if the C4 would have been slower than Xsara they'd never put on the road until it's at same level, at least.
Just a curiosity (I am not following much), is there somebody with a Xsara ? Stohl maybe ? Active or passive ?

Stohl, and i think i read somewhere passive

[Helstar]

Thanx dude, he is not doing bad at all. Seems that the Xsara haven't lost much ... eventually it will during the year because of other cars development, but I hope not so badly ;) (you know why I'm so interested lol !)

[Brother John]

Transmission and suspension were litle changed from the Xsara WRC!

http://www.wrc.com/page/News/BreakingNewsDetail/0,,10111~967565,00.html

[Daniel]

Quoting the WRC.com website in regards to the WRC is like quoting George W Bush in regards to Islamic culture. WRC.com are rubbish. Of course when they've changed the whole floorpan of the car and to a different model there would have been fairly major changes at least in the suspension........ Transmission of course wouldn't change much of course.

[StevoEvo]

I find WRC.com ok. Granted,a bit slow on breaking news stories, and being the official WRC site, I would expect more articles to be written.
But apart from that, they do some good informative stuff.
As for the C4 article, clearly it was just written and worded simple, so the avarage layman in the street could relate to what's gone into the project..
As appose to an avid rally fan, which probably knows roughly what it's all about, so therefore the article would come across as a bit dire with a "that's obvious" feel about it !!

[Rollover]

Grönholm said today that Loeb would drive faster with his old Xsara. I fully agree. There is still no evidence at all that C4 is faster than Xsara even on tarmac.
Remember this: Two best tarmac drivers are driving in dry conditions which are best suitable for them. At the same time Grönholm has gearbox problems and especially not as good dry weather tyres as Citroen drivers have.

[Daniel]

yes well Loeb has had years to get used to the Xsara in competition and the C4 is new to competition. To be leading is a huge achievement.

[bowler]

Of course when they've changed the whole floorpan of the car and to a different model there would have been fairly major changes at least in the suspension........ Transmission of course wouldn't change much of course.

I don't follow your logic Daniel.

Changing the floorpan does not, by itself, mean that the suspension should be changed.
The Xsara was a success, and their is no reason to change for change sake. Citroen would have learned from the mistakes of Peugeot, and would not want to repeat them.

Looking at the WRC.com item quoted, it may have been written by Martin Holmes who now contributes stuff to WRC.com

[Daniel]

I don't follow your logic Daniel.

Changing the floorpan does not, by itself, mean that the suspension should be changed.
The Xsara was a success, and their is no reason to change for change sake. Citroen would have learned from the mistakes of Peugeot, and would not want to repeat them.

Looking at the WRC.com item quoted, it may have been written by Martin Holmes who now contributes stuff to WRC.com

Yes but to a certain extent they are stuck with the roadcar suspension in terms of mounts. Of course they are able to move mounting points within certain limits but inevitably the suspension geometry will not be the same so a brand new suspension will be required. If the only new thing required was a new engine all they would have done is tested the new engine on an engine dyno and sent Loeb out to play on the Monte with the same suspension and transmission. Of course there will always be a certain amount of carryover but this is not simply a Xsara with a different skin.........

[Kaps]

Nothing special!? You gotta be kidding!

A 1-2 victory on a very first outing is always something special in my book.

C'mon guys, give credit where it's due...

[Jaanus]

Yes a 1-2 is very good but there are still some quiestion marks. For example when Loeb was cruising with the Xsara on tarmac he was still winning all the stages(Corsica 2005) but not anymore. They were very slow ysterday and letting even Atkinson beat them on tarmac. That would have not happened with the Xsara.

[ste898]

I would say nothing special either a 1-2 and I just hope it does'nt go like rhis as I certainly wont be watching a Citroen parade.
I can understans ITV moving WRC to back street channel thats where it belongs........

[aivan]

We seem to forget that Ford nominated the wrong tyres for the whole event, preventing them to fight in equal conditions.
Sure the C4 has a very good pace for a new car, but if Marcus had the right tyres throughout the event we could have seen a different rally.