Houston Cancelled completely

[BobGarage]

ALMS off as well now...



March 3, 2008 - 4:25 PM CST

The Grand Prix of Houston announced today that the 2008 event, originally scheduled for April 25-27 at Reliant Park, has been canceled.

“The unification of Champ Car and IRL caught us by surprise, and we were informed that due to the last-minute nature of this unification the Houston date could not be accommodated for 2008,” said Michael T. Lanigan, owner and chairman of the Grand Prix in a press release today. “We are saddened and disappointed to have to make this decision, but we remain optimistic that we will have the opportunity to bring the American Le Mans Series and the Indy Racing League to Houston in 2009.”

[pits4me]

Thanks Tony. They could have moved Kansas back a week to May 3rd & 4th. Who gives a flying crap about Indy being the only May date. This is one element that started the split in the first place.

[Ruben Barrios]

Makes sense!, Hurts, but makes sense!

[Rogelio]

We do not need the whole month of May for the Indy 500. If it were anything like the past, where huge crowds attended qualifing on back to back weekends, then I could see the argument of having the whole month of May for the 500. Times have changed and that "history" needs to stop. We barely have enough cars for the race, let alone a bump day. The series needs momentum not down time. That is the beauty of NASCAR; they race just about every weekend.

NASCAR has Daytona and they do not spend as much time as the IRL does on one event. There is nothing wrong with racing two weeks before the big race. The IRL seriously needs to analyze the situation.

[weeflyonthewall]

We do not need the whole month of May for the Indy 500. If it were anything like the past, where huge crowds attended qualifing on back to back weekends, then I could see the argument of having the whole month of May for the 500. Times have changed and that "history" needs to stop. We barely have enough cars for the race, let alone a bump day. The series needs momentum not down time. That is the beauty of NASCAR; they race just about every weekend.

NASCAR has Daytona and they do not spend as much time as the IRL does on one event. There is nothing wrong with racing two weeks before the big race. The IRL seriously needs to analyze the situation.

Thousands of open wheel fans would agree. TG just doesn't listen to them.

[gofastandwynn]

Thanks Tony. They could have moved Kansas back a week to May 3rd & 4th. Who gives a flying crap about Indy being the only May date. This is one element that started the split in the first place.

No he couldn't, that was an issue that came up with Motegi/Long Beach was that Kansas was locked to that date by contract and have a Nascar support race there. Houston could have kept going as a ALMS event, but Lanigan chose not to, that is not TG fault.

And I care that you go to Indy for the month of May. That is the way it is. They tried to change it in the late 90's and it was poorly received. Plus it is tradition, for the same reason they run on Thursday at Monaco. But then again I guess we should give up close to 100 years of tradition for a 3 year old race in a parking lot in Texas...

[weeflyonthewall]

We do not need the whole month of May for the Indy 500. If it were anything like the past, where huge crowds attended qualifing on back to back weekends, then I could see the argument of having the whole month of May for the 500. Times have changed and that "history" needs to stop. We barely have enough cars for the race, let alone a bump day. The series needs momentum not down time. That is the beauty of NASCAR; they race just about every weekend.

NASCAR has Daytona and they do not spend as much time as the IRL does on one event. There is nothing wrong with racing two weeks before the big race. The IRL seriously needs to analyze the situation.

Ditto.

[Sandfly]

Get used to it - it's all about INDY now. The teams always HATED having to spend a month there - treat it like any other race or at least in two weeks max. The IRL will be an oval INDY series with a few token road races just to show people the cars and stars of INDY!!!

[heelntoe]

No he couldn't, that was an issue that came up with Motegi/Long Beach was that Kansas was locked to that date by contract and have a Nascar support race there. Houston could have kept going as a ALMS event, but Lanigan chose not to, that is not TG fault.

And I care that you go to Indy for the month of May. That is the way it is. They tried to change it in the late 90's and it was poorly received. Plus it is tradition, for the same reason they run on Thursday at Monaco. But then again I guess we should give up close to 100 years of tradition for a 3 year old race in a parking lot in Texas...

Thanks for these points...those particular posters simply don't understand the importance of some things remaining as they are...indeed, if LB had a month of run-up events, it probably would be making money...Californians will take any excuse to party to the limit. Finally, INDY makes ratings greater than CCWS' entire past season...so, yes the whole month makes sense...IMO, of course.

[gofastandwynn]

Get used to it - it's all about INDY now.

Yea...pretty much

[!!WALDO!!]

Houston could have kept going as a ALMS event, but Lanigan chose not to, that is not TG fault.

Lanigan doesn't want to lose money. I thought the ALMS is about as popular as NASCAR according to some but I guess a $400,000 show for a $8,000,000 investment isn't enough to sway him to take a hit. I wonder if the ALMS will sue.


Plus it is tradition, for the same reason they run on Thursday at Monaco. But then again I guess we should give up close to 100 years of tradition for a 3 year old race in a parking lot in Texas...

Oh yes, there are traditions of parking lots that are far more important than the only show that gets a rating on TV, more people watched ESPN coverage of the month of May last year than all the CCWS combined. So let's throw out the 500 and replace it with Houston, nobody will know the difference.

[Rogelio]

I believe in tradition and of course the Indy 500 is the most important race on our schedule. However, I think most of us would agree that Bump Day does not even consitute the significance that it once held. We can barely fill the field of 33 and I am sure that even with the merger that there will still be only a few more cars than 33. Therefore, is is necessary to have a bump day if it is not needed?

Do we really need to have an entire month (April 27 to May 25) without a race? Ok, let us leave Houston out of the discussion, but the fact is that this is a ridculous amount of time that elapses between races. I could understand two weeks, but three weeks? The IRL ratings have not been stellar and to compare them to Champ Car is pointless. Both series merged because both series are struggling.

By adding another race, say Houston, all it will do is add more money and more momentum to our series.

[Rogelio]

(This discussion went off track) Back to Houston, I just hope that the IRL tried to accomodate Houston because burning our bridges with the other CCWS cities by denying them of races is surely going to lead to a lot of anger and resentment at AOWR. I realize that not all of the tracks could be accomodated due to the IRL schedule. Yet, if the series plans on being back next year, they better do some major @ss kissing; especially tracks like Portland, Cleveland, and Toronto.

[!!WALDO!!]

Bump Day does not even consitute the significance that it once held. ere will still be only a few more cars than 33. Therefore, is is necessary to have

I have been going to qualifying for 47 years and never saw Bump Day on the schedule. First Day, Second Day, Third Day and Fourth Day of qualifying but no "Bump Day". I saw cars bumped at 2:30 on the Third Day in 1965. I saw it again in 1966 and 1967. 1970 only one car bumped his way in at 12:01PM.

I get a kick out of that people that make the above statement do not understand that every race used to have bumping until CART of the mid 1980s.

[garyshell]

I have been going to qualifying for 47 years and never saw Bump Day on the schedule. First Day, Second Day, Third Day and Fourth Day of qualifying but no "Bump Day". I saw cars bumped at 2:30 on the Third Day in 1965. I saw it again in 1966 and 1967. 1970 only one car bumped his way in at 12:01PM.

I get a kick out of that people that make the above statement do not understand that every race used to have bumping until CART of the mid 1980s.


Oh come on Waldo, who peed in your wheaties? Just because it does not say "bump day" in the official program means it doesn't exist? Try this link:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22bump+day%22

I get a kick ot of know it alls who are convinced they are the only one who knows anything.

Gary

[SoTex]

The IRL won the war and therefore Indy will take the entire month of May to run. Just accept it.

As for Houston, maybe it can be back in 2009. If Tony George wants 20 races on the schedule, they need warm weather locations like Houston to make that work.

[!!WALDO!!]

Oh come on Waldo, who peed in your wheaties? Just because it does not say "bump day" in the official program means it doesn't exist? Try this link:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22bump+day%22

I get a kick ot of know it alls who are convinced they are the only one who knows anything.

Gary

Well. I showed you a race that Nelson Stacy was in and he survived many cars that were bumped or Too Slow.

See bumping occurs when the field is full, so there is no "specific day". That is what "bumping" is. I saw many more cars bumped on day 3 than 4. Yes, the excitement of sitting on the bubble or someone finding speed out of a ShoeBox and sticking it in only to have his bubble burst 3 minutes after 6PM.
Too bad most of that occurred before I got there in 1960.

I do not know anything, you do. Just remember that, you know it and I don't.

We need Houston back on the schedule, now. Let's put it on "Bump Day" there you go, and let's make it a standing start with a hour and forty five time limit.

There always is an answer if we dig hard enough.

[bblocker68]

I hope to see Houston in the future. I like Indy the way it is and we'll need all the ratings we can, to build this new series. For those who say Indy out-rated CC's entire schedule, DUH! If you look closely, it out-rated the rest of the IRL schedule combined too, DOH!

I really do like tradition for certain things, like having Milwaukee the week after. I think that should stay a constant.

As for bump day only being high car counts primarily in the 80's, I remember over 60 cars trying to get into the 1977 Indy 500 and serious car counts for all of the later 70's. Yes, before CART.

[garyshell]

Well. I showed you a race that Nelson Stacy was in and he survived many cars that were bumped or Too Slow.

See bumping occurs when the field is full, so there is no "specific day". That is what "bumping" is. I saw many more cars bumped on day 3 than 4. Yes, the excitement of sitting on the bubble or someone finding speed out of a ShoeBox and sticking it in only to have his bubble burst 3 minutes after 6PM.
Too bad most of that occurred before I got there in 1960.

I do not know anything, you do. Just remember that, you know it and I don't.

We need Houston back on the schedule, now. Let's put it on "Bump Day" there you go, and let's make it a standing start with a hour and forty five time limit.

There always is an answer if we dig hard enough.

Whatever Waldo. We started off on really good footing when you went out of your way to relay some information about my uncle. Then over the next few days, you systematically tried to impress everyone with your recall and in effect tell everyone else how ignorant they were and they shouldn't dare to question anything you say.

You obviously know a lot about the sport. But just as obvious, you know very little about human nature. The first few messages like this I saw from you, I thought oh he's just having a bad day. How could a guy who helped me find out about my uncle be so abrasive to other folks in the forum. Then, day by day, it became more obvious.

I'm done you win. You know everything there is to know. You have all the answers. You know that Americans want consistency. I was totally wrong that when given new options like salsa, Americans will still choose catsup. You know how the insurance companies rate rolling starts versus standing starts and I was wrong to ask for that information. I am not worthy to know. I realize that now.

Gary

[grungex]

:up:

[!!WALDO!!]

As for bump day only being high car counts primarily in the 80's, I remember over 60 cars trying to get into the 1977 Indy 500 and serious car counts for all of the later 70's. Yes, before CART.

Yes, I think it was 1984 someone filled the field and it rain, thus no bumping.

Even in the 1990s car count was good but many entries where for garage space.

Houston is a market that we do need to get into. Maybe an early March date prior to Homestead.

[gofastandwynn]

I believe in tradition and of course the Indy 500 is the most important race on our schedule. However, I think most of us would agree that Bump Day does not even consitute the significance that it once held. We can barely fill the field of 33 and I am sure that even with the merger that there will still be only a few more cars than 33. Therefore, is is necessary to have a bump day if it is not needed?

Do we really need to have an entire month (April 27 to May 25) without a race? Ok, let us leave Houston out of the discussion, but the fact is that this is a ridculous amount of time that elapses between races. I could understand two weeks, but three weeks? The IRL ratings have not been stellar and to compare them to Champ Car is pointless. Both series merged because both series are struggling.

By adding another race, say Houston, all it will do is add more money and more momentum to our series.

There is a race on May 10, it's called Pole Day, the race against the clock and will get more press than any race put on in a parking lot.

And if you think there will be no bumping this year because there are not enough cars then you clearly haven't been paying attention. (Do you want to make the same bet Skid Marx did?)

And this wasn't a merger, this was a buyout of a smaller company buy a bigger one that is now choosing what assets it wants to keep.

[Rogelio]

There is a race on May 10, it's called Pole Day, the race against the clock and will get more press than any race put on in a parking lot.

And if you think there will be no bumping this year because there are not enough cars then you clearly haven't been paying attention. (Do you want to make the same bet Skid Marx did?)

And this wasn't a merger, this was a buyout of a smaller company buy a bigger one that is now choosing what assets it wants to keep.

1. I am not arguing that the Houston race should be on the weekend of May 11. The pole day is of extreme importance and I am not about to deny that. However, what I am saying is that the IRL does not need three weeks before the 500. I believe in tradition, but the last decade has shown that Americans do not care that much about the "tradition" of Indy (fans at the track & tv ratings).

2. I have been paying plenty of attention to the former Champ Car teams that plan on joining the series. I am sure that TG hopes that most of the Champ Car Teams will be on board. As of now, Forsythe is not joing the IRL, although I hope that he does. Will Coyne join the IRL? I know that the number of teams have increased, and I also know that TG will throw money in there for teams to add drivers or have Tony Stewart show up to create a little bit of media hysteria. So 34 entries accounts for the need for a weekend of bump day?

3. As a Champ Car fan who has lost his series, I will admit that I need to rephrase my terminology. It was not a merger but a buyout. You are right. However, if TG really wants to make AOWR thrive like it once did, he better figure out a way to convert the die-hard CART/Champ Car fans like myself and the rest on this forum. We are just as passionate, if not more, about AOWR than the IRL fan (my opinion, and probably wrong, but oh well). If TG decides to burn his bridges with the Champ Car world, then all the power to him, because that would be a big mistake. The end of Champ Car does not mean (as you know) that the IRL will rise from its decline.

4. TG had more than a decade to make the IRL meaningful. I ask the question, did he succeed? I am a former CART/Champ Car fan and I will say honestly that AOWR is irrelevant.

[Sandfly]

The problem is that The IRL did not win because of a better product or better service to it's fans, teams or sponsors. It got a mark in the W cloumn because the other series owners had a spat and one decided to pull the plug and give away the team bus and uniforms.

But if the IRL wants any of the fans to pay attention they better look at many of the things the CC team was doing right., or they won't sell many hot dogs, even if they take the whole month of May and then some.

[tbyars]

As for Houston, maybe it can be back in 2009. If Tony George wants 20 races on the schedule, they need warm weather locations like Houston to make that work.

Don't hold your breath.

Does anyone have any illusions as to whether or not Eddie Gossage is going to support an IRL race in Houston?

[tbyars]

The problem is that The IRL did not win because of a better product or better service to it's fans, teams or sponsors. It got a mark in the W cloumn because the other series owners had a spat and one decided to pull the plug and give away the team bus and uniforms.

But if the IRL wants any of the fans to pay attention they better look at many of the things the CC team was doing right., or they won't sell many hot dogs, even if they take the whole month of May and then some.

Sandfly, the IRL won because the poor management of the other series launched that series into total insignificance. Don't look for that level of insignificance to dictate ANYTHING that happens in the consolidated series.

[gorby007]

Sandfly, the IRL won because the poor management of the other series launched that series into total insignificance. Don't look for that level of insignificance to dictate ANYTHING that happens in the consolidated series.


I think we should give it some time, IMO they have a clean slate to start with as we finally have one series IRL part Deux, I guess time will tell. Any chance they will call it the Indy Car World Series again ??

[bblocker68]

I really hope so Gorby. It makes the most sense and it gives open wheel racing a brand that fans can releate to.

[BenRoethig]

Thanks Tony. They could have moved Kansas back a week to May 3rd & 4th. Who gives a flying crap about Indy being the only May date. This is one element that started the split in the first place.

Tony wasn't the one who decided to merge only after figuring out the financials didn't add up. While it may mean nothing to you foreign road racing types, almost a century of tradition means a lot to us. That being said I would not be adverse to running a race the first week of May.

[weeflyonthewall]

Do road racing types have to be foreign? I've attended both and enjoy places like Long Beach, Toronto, Road America, Vancouver, Denver, Houston, Mid-Ohio, far more. These guys have to drive the car, not just keep the foot to the floor and turn left.

[weeflyonthewall]

Thanks for these points...those particular posters simply don't understand the importance of some things remaining as they are...indeed, if LB had a month of run-up events, it probably would be making money...Californians will take any excuse to party to the limit. Finally, INDY makes ratings greater than CCWS' entire past season...so, yes the whole month makes sense...IMO, of course.

Long Beach has a week of lead in events and has a big crowd. Maybe you're confusing it with St. Pete's. INDY is the only race that made the IRL significant. That fact we can all agree on. Why make any other race a points event if INDY is ALWAYS more important than the season championship?

[weeflyonthewall]

1. I am not arguing that the Houston race should be on the weekend of May 11. The pole day is of extreme importance and I am not about to deny that. However, what I am saying is that the IRL does not need three weeks before the 500. I believe in tradition, but the last decade has shown that Americans do not care that much about the "tradition" of Indy (fans at the track & tv ratings).

2. ..... I also know that TG will throw money in there for teams to add drivers .... to create a little bit of media hysteria. So 34 entries accounts for the need for a weekend of bump day?

3....... The end of Champ Car does not mean (as you know) that the IRL will rise from its decline.

4. TG had more than a decade to make the IRL meaningful. I ask the question, did he succeed? ........

1. NASCAR managed to keep tradition at Daytona.
2. A day will come when business sense gets the front seat.
3. Something about a magic bullet?
4. Not if he ignores the reasons Champ Car kept going all these years.

[Breeze]

First, let me say that devoting the entire month of May to Indy IS IMPORTANT TO THE PRESTIGE OF THE RACE AND THE SERIES.

I'm not as ancient or intractable as uncle Waldo, but I do recall that in the 60's and 70's it was all about the 500. What the racers did outside of that race most folks probably didn't know or care. That's the audience the Indy500 has to recapture.

Really, it wasn't until the later 70's that American Open Wheel racing began to grow in popularity as a season long sport. Credit Mario Andretti for that, IMHO.

Point is, the INDY500 is a luminous star that needs a lot of polishing. Chipping away at the May schedule would only diminish it. Make it "just another race". Tony George is correct in that a hugely poplular INDY500 will elevate the prestige of the series as a whole. The good news is that he seems to now realize that when you shine the light of INDY on a turd, what you see is a brightly lit turd. So now on to fixing up the turd!! Hooray.

[pits4me]

They could start by getting away from a single spec formula. Indy was all about tire wars, chassis competition and different engine manufacturers.

[garyshell]

I think we should give it some time, IMO they have a clean slate to start with as we finally have one series IRL part Deux, I guess time will tell. Any chance they will call it the Indy Car World Series again ??


Agreed, but we need to give it more than one season. They really don't have a "clean slate" this year at all. Getting this finalized so late in the year has and will severely hamper getting all aspects of the series up to speed. From the teams, the new venues, the sponsors etc it will all take a bit of time.

Gary

[tbyars]

Any chance they will call it the Indy Car World Series again ??

In the short term, I don't think so. They won't do anything until something is decided for Surfers in 2009.

After that, as long as all the races, sans Motegi, are in North America, I don't think the name will change. JMO.

[Call Me Earl]

We don't need to be in Houston, we have a lot of great markets already.

Who would want to watch a bunch of cars driving around a parking lot anyway? You can watch that at Wal-Mart, and it's free!

[pvtjoker]

Get used to it - it's all about INDY now. The teams always HATED having to spend a month there - treat it like any other race or at least in two weeks max. The IRL will be an oval INDY series with a few token road races just to show people the cars and stars of INDY!!!

We can only hope.

[gofastandwynn]

1. I am not arguing that the Houston race should be on the weekend of May 11. The pole day is of extreme importance and I am not about to deny that. However, what I am saying is that the IRL does not need three weeks before the 500. I believe in tradition, but the last decade has shown that Americans do not care that much about the "tradition" of Indy (fans at the track & tv ratings).

But at the same time Pole day has done better than the avg. IRL or CC race in the TV ratings department and gets more press that a race in Houston would.




2. I have been paying plenty of attention to the former Champ Car teams that plan on joining the series. I am sure that TG hopes that most of the Champ Car Teams will be on board. As of now, Forsythe is not joing the IRL, although I hope that he does. Will Coyne join the IRL? I know that the number of teams have increased, and I also know that TG will throw money in there for teams to add drivers or have Tony Stewart show up to create a little bit of media hysteria. So 34 entries accounts for the need for a weekend of bump day?
Coyne said in Homestead that he will run 2 cars full time, and is in Sebring today meeting with Honda, and right now most estimates are for 8 to 12 cars from CC. When it looks like the IRL will have 18-19 before that, plus Fisher, Playa del, Jay Penske, Herb's team, Beck, PDM, and 2nd & 3rd cars from teams like Panther & D&R, 40 cars is not out of the relm of possibility, and for 40 you do need 2 weeks,

Secondly if there were dead time during the practices you would be right, but there are cars running all of the time when the track is open. Hell, back in the "Heyday of CART", Indy extended into April with ROP & private testing.

Point is, they tried to limit Indy to 2 weeks back in 98 & 99 and it was universally disliked by the teams, fans and press.



3. As a Champ Car fan who has lost his series, I will admit that I need to rephrase my terminology. It was not a merger but a buyout. You are right. However, if TG really wants to make AOWR thrive like it once did, he better figure out a way to convert the die-hard CART/Champ Car fans like myself and the rest on this forum. We are just as passionate, if not more, about AOWR than the IRL fan (my opinion, and probably wrong, but oh well). If TG decides to burn his bridges with the Champ Car world, then all the power to him, because that would be a big mistake. The end of Champ Car does not mean (as you know) that the IRL will rise from its decline.

It is not about burning bridges, it is about making what will fit. I said that I felt they should run separate in 08, get together for Indy then say there will be one series in 09, (See here) (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=421213#post421213) but that is not what happned and to be quite honest none of us know why. It may have been IRL was out of cars, it may have been CC was out of cash, be we don't know.

Now, the IRL has previous contracts in place to run at X location on X date. They can't budge those dates unless the track says it is ok (see Long Beach). Toronto can't be worked in because there is no dates open in that period, but Edmonton is only a week away from a gap, so they can try to work that in without too much trouble.



4. TG had more than a decade to make the IRL meaningful. I ask the question, did he succeed? I am a former CART/Champ Car fan and I will say honestly that AOWR is irrelevant.

Yes, he has made the IRL far more meaning full than it was in 96-99. If you remember those days of 1 race a month, 3 race season, the cars with patch work sponsorship & under talented drivers. Watching the races on Fox Sports Net at Atlanta or Dover with 5000 people in the stands. Here is the 1997 Indy 500 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MgsiN-NNEg) and the dark days of the series. Watch it and the start and tell me that the IRL has vastly improved then what it was...

[nigelred5]

They could start by getting away from a single spec formula. Indy was all about tire wars, chassis competition and different engine manufacturers.

Absolutely agree 100%. Spec racing sucks. I long for the "run what ya brung" type days. Penske was the last one to really find and exploit that loophole in the rules.
Sorry FF and FV guys, bigtime racing needs equipment competition as much as Driver competition.

[!!WALDO!!]

http://www2.indystar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3506582&postcount=1

It appears the ALMS is back on as of last night.

[BobGarage]

http://www2.indystar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3506582&postcount=1

It appears the ALMS is back on as of last night.

NO it is 100% off.

The first half of that post is the statement from a day or two ago confirming the whole event is cancelled.

the second half of the post is the original statement put out by Lanigan the day after the unification announcement. At that point ALMS was still on. Yesterdays announcement confirms that this is no longer the case.

[BobGarage]

and cancellation is confirmed by ticketmaster:-

http://www.ticketmaster.com/artist/1008633?list_view=1

[!!WALDO!!]

and cancellation is confirmed by ticketmaster:-

http://www.ticketmaster.com/artist/1008633?list_view=1


Too bad.