Bourdais Slams Champ Car/IndyCar Merger Deal

[Bullet]

I've never been a fan, or much cared about his opinion but I think he hit the mark here. I hope good decisions are made for the future, but this season will be a circus.
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/bourdais-slams-champ-car-indycar-merger-deal//P2/

[Nikki Katz]

Yes, I agree. I think a little more forethought could really have been useful here on the part of ChampCar. If the merger was announced at the start of last season, or even at the end of it so that there was still chance for winter testing, then it wouldn't be so bad. A few weeks before the start of the season is really too late to be fair. I think that the ChampCar owners were really forced into a corner in the end. Perhaps 2009 will be slightly more fair and even add a few more road courses, but then I doubt that the IRL will be so willing to bribe the ChampCar teams to compete in their series then.

Incidentally, has Bourdais beaten Vettel in any test yet? I hope that he gets a fair shot as Toro Rosso haven't been known for their good relations with drivers of late.

[Rogelio]

Looks like Seabass is just being bruttally honest. I, like many, have been caught up in the hoopla of the merger without much thought of the "real" consequences for our Champ Car teams. Hopefully, TG and the alignment with the teams helps out the new teams. Then again, will Penske/AGR/Ganassi really want to share enough inormation with their new allies? Let's just hope that the financially stapped teams (Coyne) hang in there because as Seabass says it is going to be a long learning process.

I agree with Seabass and his comments regarding the meger occurring when it did. Last year there were three cancelled races (Phoenix, China, & Denver), severe lack of sponsorship, and the season ended on a less than spectacular note in Mexico City. Perhaps the Amigos should have seriously weighed their option down the down time between September and October. I am sure they realized that their were going to be severe problems in answering the bell for 2008. The season ended like everything was fine and dandy. Of course, everything was not financially sound. Instead, they wait until a month before the season to offically merge the series. Looking back, did KK and GF really think they could run a full 2008 season? I think they realized they were in deep trouble. Why did they even bother showing up at Sebring? As Seabass says, the merger process should have started much sooner. Surely, it is hindsight, but Seabass is correct. Looks like Seabass got out at the right time.

[jimispeed]

What Sebastian said, is how I felt before the merger went through......

If Champcar would have continued their series this year, and made the transition last the season and off season, then the planning and future, I believe would be a much better looking and operating one.

But, here we are, so get it done right, or the downward spiral will continue!!

[fugariracing]

Check back in a couple years to see if his foresight is correct and the smaller teams wind up fading just like the early IRL days before the CART invasion from 02-03.

Ever since I had a couple chats w/Seabass at Road America, I could tell he is very intelligent and smart and not afraid to speak his mind. So I can understand why he says this. It won't be easy for the teams with smaller resources to get up to par right away, if at all. Really have to hope for the technical assistance from the bigger teams.

Maybe there's bitterness in a sense because he isn't racing in the one series, but unlikely because he now finally got the ticket to F1 after four straight titles when Montoya and Zanardi only needed one or two. Personally I hope he does well in F1 as it will look better for AOWR on a world scale.

But at the same point, the details of the arrangement had taken months and years to come into place and it's just the timing is bad. This deal had to get done and with the financial pitfalls that have plagued Champ Car the last couple years, they would have self-destructed within the season anyway and the teams would have folded regardless. Sorry but propping up a dying product for another year wasn't going to do anyone any favors. It makes TG look good for now and if this one series goes downhill from here, which I hope it doesn't, then I would agree w/Bourdais's comments.

For now though, just roll with the punches, see how the teams meld together and adapt to the IRL product, and check back in a couple years IMO.

[Cart750hp]

I couldn't agree with Sebas more.

However, this "late" merger move were probably "no choice" on both ends since: 1) KK and GF DOESN'T have any more millions to spend it on CC for one more year 2) Where else the teams and sponsors go? 3) At least they are getting $1.2M and free cars. Pretty much no choice for CC other than QUIT. Sure, teams this year will probably suck but that's how it goes.

[Breeze]

What Sebastian said, is how I felt before the merger went through......

But, here we are, so get it done right, or the downward spiral will continue!!

Ain't it the truth, brother jimi. I do have to disagree with SB in one regard, and that is how long it will take for the sport to recover. Mind you, its more a gut feeling than based on good analysis, but I see the series gaining good momentum by mid season and showing real gains in TV ratings by the end of this season. 2009 and a better mix of tracks should continue that trend, albeit still gradual.

If, and its a big if, TG and company can come up with a new and innovative package by 2010, then the series will show a major surge in popularity. Trouble is, I don't see how they can bring a truly innovative package to market by 2010, unless its been in the works for the last year or two already. If thats the case, then all the hyperbole TG uttered at press conferences is just so much pandering to the newly acquired fan base.

[Hiryu]

Ain't it the truth, brother jimi. I do have to disagree with SB in one regard, and that is how long it will take for the sport to recover. Mind you, its more a gut feeling than based on good analysis, but I see the series gaining good momentum by mid season and showing real gains in TV ratings by the end of this season. 2009 and a better mix of tracks should continue that trend, albeit still gradual.

If, and its a big if, TG and company can come up with a new and innovative package by 2010, then the series will show a major surge in popularity. Trouble is, I don't see how they can bring a truly innovative package to market by 2010, unless its been in the works for the last year or two already. If thats the case, then all the hyperbole TG uttered at press conferences is just so much pandering to the newly acquired fan base.

We'll see who follows Gerry Forsyth out the door, that will tell the tale; Bump Day may remain nothing more than "Fill Day."

Also, it's a live question whether "the newly acquired fan base" buys this. They're just as likely to spend their money on the ALMS, or nothing at all, seeing as it appears that the U.S. economy is going to tank.

[-Helix-]

I think it's pretty ironic that a driver for Toro Rosso is complaining about teams being uncompetititve. :p

[jarrambide]

I couldn't agree with Sebas more.

However, this "late" merger move were probably "no choice" on both ends since: 1) KK and GF DOESN'T have any more millions to spend it on CC for one more year 2) Where else the teams and sponsors go? 3) At least they are getting $1.2M and free cars. Pretty much no choice for CC other than QUIT. Sure, teams this year will probably suck but that's how it goes.

I also agree with Sebastien and I also agree with you, this was probably a "no choice" on both ends, bu the truth is that they could have done this earlier, they didn´t, the merger was imposed to both parties by faith.

[redunderthebed]

I think it's pretty ironic that a driver for Toro Rosso is complaining about teams being uncompetititve. :p

hahahaha! well put :p


Meh i think the whole thing was a screw up and seb has just stated the obvious it wasnt well done hopefully it doesnt kill it off. :s

[philipbain]

I think Bourdais has a point, the merger should have happened a lot sooner to enable the Champ Car teams to have a fighting chance, but it is now apparent that Champ Car may not have happened in 2008 due to financial problems, so the merger had to happen and its unfortunate that its happened in the manner it has. Having said that former Champ Car teams have been quick to make alliances with existing Indycar teams, this will prove a great help in coming up to speed as they can feed off the knowledge and experience of these well established teams. This way things may not be quite as gloomy as Bourdais is saying, though I think it'll still be an uphill struggle for most. The excessive amount of testing and practice on the run up to Indy (basically an entire month) should prove a real boon for the teams new to Indycar as it'll give them plenty of track time to better understand how the cars work, though unfortunately the Indy aero pack is unique to Indy!

[Crapwagons4Ever]

I too have never been a huge SB fan.. but aside from the bluntness, I think that his comments show an support and respect for his CC co-drivers and teams that is nice to see.

I too am glad for the merger (which btw SB says he supports overall in that piece), but the brutal truth is that the way this all went down means that the current champcar teams have a massive uphill battle this year. Kudos to SB for putting the size of the challenge in context.

Saying that his perspective is akin to "slamming the merger" deal is a bit overly dramatic, given that he was simply pointing out that the technical/car arrangements will be a massive challenge in 08 Indycar

[bravefish]

Typical media rubbish - its hardly a 'slam' at all. More like Bourdais expressing his thoughts in a pc way. He's quite right too.

[BenRoethig]

The last 12 years have been a charlie foxtrox, could we expect the way everything was resolved to be any different? I'm just glad it happened in a way that we still have races.

[qwinsee]

I'm just glad it happened in a way that we still have races.

Well , half the races

[downtowndeco]

All this hand rubbing and angst about what "could have been done" & "they should have waited for the right time" and "it would have been so much more fair if they'd have taken the time to do it right" is all, IMO, a huge pile of stinking crap.

A ship is sinking. No two ways about it, it's going down. You rush to the passengers rescue. Do you try and do the best you can in a crisis situation and save as many passengers as possible or do you dick around planning, arguing amongst yourselves which is the "best way" to rescue them and perhaps even tell them "We'll come back for you next year with a bigger boat and all of the "proper" rescue equiptment?

CCWS was going down. All OW fans should be glad TG did the best he could to salvage/save anythiing he could from that ship wreck.

[qwinsee]

All OW fans should be glad TG did the best he could to salvage/save anythiing he could from that ship wreck.

Yes, we should all be glad for everything TG has done for OW racing. CC owners got tired of losing money, TG didn't. It's not a ship wreck, they threw in the towel.

[CowboyUp]

I've not always been a big fan of SB but he is correct in what he says. The problem I have with most of the forums is that it abortion is being called a "MERGER". It wasn't a merger. KK, GF and Co. simply threw in the towel and dumped on anyone aside from themselves associated with CC. If it were a "MERGER", part of the agreement would have likely been to absorb at least some of the staff, be it office, medical, safety, tech, etc. etc. It has been said in the past few days that in fact they didn't buy the medical center and are not absorbing any of the safety team. They have the gonads to give 50 employees their pinkslips without even stopping by the CC offices to express the least bit of gratitude but again that is corporate America. The owners of Champ Car didn't merge, they quit. See you at the ALMS races!

[!!WALDO!!]

I think his value would have gone up and he may have done better than Toro Rosso if this deal could have been done a year earlier so he could have challenged Dario for a 500 win and the ICS title. This way three CCWS Titles and an Indy win and ICS Title on his resume, would have gotten him a better deal.

I think he is a bit bitter as he ended up with a step above Minardi when he could have made the same money over here.

When you are for yourself these things occur. Racing is truly a team sport and Seabass wants to line his own pocket. He busts out of this which he will, where then? ARCA/Trucks?

[jarrambide]

I think his value would have gone up and he may have done better than Toro Rosso if this deal could have been done a year earlier so he could have challenged Dario for a 500 win and the ICS title. This way three CCWS Titles and an Indy win and ICS Title on his resume, would have gotten him a better deal.

I think he is a bit bitter as he ended up with a step above Minardi when he could have made the same money over here.

When you are for yourself these things occur. Racing is truly a team sport and Seabass wants to line his own pocket. He busts out of this which he will, where then? ARCA/Trucks?
Winning an oval race no matter how many attendants the race has doesn´t give you any leverage or extra points when trying to get a place in F1, winning a series with more ovals than circuits doesn´t help you either, my guess is that if they had merge a year earlier, the first year schedule would have look a lot like the current one.

The guy is not bitter in my opinion, he is at last in F1, my guess would be that almost every OW racer would choose F1 over any other series anytime, I know that IC thinks that in the past US racers would prefer to be on the 500 rather than being in F1 but those years are gone, F1 is the biggest showcase for any OW racer (and the guy is from Europe, even in the glory days of the 500, any , and unlike IRL and CC before the merger, in F1 you get paid uropean would have never changed a chance in F1 for the 500, trying to run an F1 season and running the 500 maybe, but not trading)instead of having to get sponsorship to run, even teams like Toro Rosso have a base salary bigger than IRL and CC teams, so thinking that he would have receive the same base salary here than in F1 is stretching it a little bit.

[!!WALDO!!]

Winning an oval race no matter how many attendants the race has doesn´t give you any leverage or extra points when trying to get a place in F1, winning a series with more ovals than circuits doesn´t help you either, my guess is that if they had merge a year earlier, the first year schedule would have look a lot like the current one.

So JPM winning the 500 contributed nothing to his Williams ride? I guess he should have not won the oval races in CART and stayed as a Williams test driver, and Buddy Lazier would have won his second 500 and some other open wheel driver would be in the #42.


The guy is not bitter in my opinion, he is at last in F1, my guess would be that almost every OW racer would choose F1 over any other series anytime,

Where are you coming from? F-1 is loaded with drivers that bought themselves up there. This is not my F-1 of the 1960s. Once bounced where oh where are they landing? In NASCAR.


I know that IC thinks that in the past US racers would prefer to be on the 500 rather than being in F1 but those years are gone, F1 is the biggest showcase for any OW racer (and the guy is from Europe, even in the glory days of the 500, any , and unlike IRL and CC before the merger, in F1 you get paid uropean would have never changed a chance in F1 for the 500, trying to run an F1 season and running the 500 maybe, but not trading)instead of having to get sponsorship to run, even teams like Toro Rosso have a base salary bigger than IRL and CC teams, so thinking that he would have receive the same base salary here than in F1 is stretching it a little bit.

The goal of every open wheel driver from 1920-1970 was to get to Indy, I know that you are looking a "world wide" but in 1950, there were more Midget drivers in Kansas City than there were WORLD WIDE.
From 1971-1990 it was to make a living racing as best you can.
From 1991 on it was to get to NASCAR, because Open Wheel broke my family and NASCAR can pay us back.

This brings to the topic of salaries. JPM made more last year, even though his base was a 1/3 of what he made at McLaren than he ever made in one season. 5 years in NASCAR will equal his CART/F-1 salaries.
Toro Rosso isn't paying Seabass squat. This is occuring in NASCAR now. "Would you like to drive my Cup car?" "Oh yes", said the squid. "Ok I will pay your expenses to and from the race, $250,000 in base salary and 40% of what you earn and you will drive the NNS series, 25 races for 20% of the winnings." "I thought that drivers made millions" said the squid. "Look I am dropping $5,000 per race, that is $210,000 plus $250,000 plus an average of $40,000 per race, that is $1,440,000. So finishing 35th in the points makes you $1,700,000 plus about $100,000 in the NNS." "Oh I get it now, it is more important to have the seat, than it is for the money", commented the squid. "Yes, if you finish in the top 25 it is worth more, if you make the Chase then it is worth more and I will double your base next year", said the car owner.

Every car owner from Midgets to F-1 tries to get the driver as cheap as possible and desiring a ride in F-1 automaticly puts the advantage in the car owners hand.
My bet he is making less than with Newman-Haas but it is an F-1 ride and if he does anything another team could sign him, if not then he will be forgotten or back here carring Villenueve's helmet in search of money.

Racing is what did you do today, especially in short seasons, 36 race seasons is a different colored horse, but if you stay in the top 35 you help your team and may be able to hold the ride. Otherwise, it is my friend Jason Leffler, David Stremme and Mike Bliss in an attempt to get back to the big dance. In F-1 if you are not driving then what? Test driver? Or how about coming back and winning the 500?

Worth nothing to the driver, right? Worth tons as far as marketing, sponsorship and interest in that driver.
I know I know nothing, for 47 years in this sport I have been "Tommy". Too bad I know many of this people that got these deals.

[jarrambide]

Keywords from your post is "my bet", so please spare me the "Where are you coming from?" lecture, your guess is as good as mine(and in case you are thinking about replying please also spae the "I´m a racing historian" lecture you try to used in a couple of threads).

If you like to think the current 500 can get you a seat in a series that has no ovals or a better seat in the case of SB(after all, my post was in response to your original comment that if the merger had been a year earlier SB would have gotten a better seat by winning the 500 and the IndyCar series and that he is bitter because of that) you are free to believe it, don´t ask me to take your opinion as fact.

SB was lucky to get that F1 seat, and my guess (which is as valid as yours) is that he got it because F1 guys considered him a good driver before CC, if he did the right or wrong thing by deciding not to sign that contract with Briatore is debatable.

Going to what later became CC wasn´t a big help, CC wasn´t close to what CART was in its glory days, IndyCar isn´t close to what CART used to be either(ask Dixon about it), the 500 isn´t what it used to be (ask Wheldon, heck, he has a 500 win and a championship), that is a reality, like it or not.

[indycool]

jarrambide, in almost every other country but the U.S., in all probability, F1 is the ultimate. In the U.S., that is not necessarily the case. F1 teams talked to Jeff Gordon. He didn't want to go, regardless of money.

It is the opinion of every road racing fan that F1 is the pinnacle. It is THEIR pinnacle....not necessarily the drivers who race in the U.S.

The IRL is not a "prep" series for F1. Villeneuve and Montoya went over there and did well. Fittipaldi and Mansell came over here and did well. Michael Andretti went over there and didn't do so well. So far, Montoya has done respectably in NASCAR. Hornish, Villeneuve, Franchitti and Carpentier have been junk.

On top of that, the 125-130,000 that attended the F1 races at Indy were the lowest race day crowds in perhaps 60 years at the Speedway although they were among the biggest F1 crowds each year. Speed's ratings for F1 are 0-point-something in the U.S., no better than CC or the IRL. If you go to any of this nation's 700-plus short ovals and ask someone in the crowd who Rubens Barrichello is, the best answer you're likely to get is that may have been the name on the driver's license of the last cab I took in Dayton.

To each his own....but his own isn't any better than anyone else's. Different strokes for different folks. Bourdais obviously wanted to go. He's there. da Matta wanted to go. He's back.

[jarrambide]

jarrambide, in almost every other country but the U.S., in all probability, F1 is the ultimate. In the U.S., that is not necessarily the case. F1 teams talked to Jeff Gordon. He didn't want to go, regardless of money.

It is the opinion of every road racing fan that F1 is the pinnacle. It is THEIR pinnacle....not necessarily the drivers who race in the U.S.

The IRL is not a "prep" series for F1. Villeneuve and Montoya went over there and did well. Fittipaldi and Mansell came over here and did well. Michael Andretti went over there and didn't do so well. So far, Montoya has done respectably in NASCAR. Hornish, Villeneuve, Franchitti and Carpentier have been junk.

On top of that, the 125-130,000 that attended the F1 races at Indy were the lowest race day crowds in perhaps 60 years at the Speedway although they were among the biggest F1 crowds each year. Speed's ratings for F1 are 0-point-something in the U.S., no better than CC or the IRL. If you go to any of this nation's 700-plus short ovals and ask someone in the crowd who Rubens Barrichello is, the best answer you're likely to get is that may have been the name on the driver's license of the last cab I took in Dayton.

To each his own....but his own isn't any better than anyone else's. Different strokes for different folks. Bourdais obviously wanted to go. He's there. da Matta wanted to go. He's back.

I will not question that point because it is not what I was trying to tell Waldo (but for the record, since Jeff Gordon is running NASCAR, in my book he is not an OW racer at heart).

I was questioning WALDO´s opinion that Bourdais was bitter and that an extra year in a unified series would have given him a better seat if he had won the 500 and the championship.

Bourdais is French, you just said that outside of the US in every part of the world F1 is the ultimate, and taking that in consideration, for him to be in F1 would make him anything but bitter.

Now, the idea that winning the 500 or the series championship would have get him a better seat, well, you know more about racing than I do (besides, you just said it, IndyCar is not a feeder series, there are faster and more effective ways to try and get an F1 seat, they are different series with no ties whatsoever), you will agree with me that teams from an all Road Racing series would not use the 500 to decide if they would hire Bourdais or not, and you better than anyone know that the current 500 is not what it used to be(not saying is not important, but it used to be the most important race in the US ) and that many (not saying everyone, but many) young OW racers in the US don´t consider the current 500 more desirable than F1, and guys like Jeff Gordon prove that right now, NASCAR is more desirable to US drivers than a series with the 500, but then again, if you go to NASCAR regardless of good offers in an OW series then you are not an OW driver.

I´m not trying to bash the 500, and believe me, you will have the inconvenience of showing me Indianapolis in the near future, I was questioning WALDO and his opinions on Bourdais.

To each its own, you know I love OW racing, you also know I love Road Racing more than Oval racing, I think you respect that, I know you love OW racing, I also know you you love Oval Racing more than Road Racing and that you consider the 500 the holy grail of OW and I respect that, I was not trying to bash the race in any way, I love OW to much to bash any race or series, I wouldn´t be a real fan.

[!!WALDO!!]

Keywords from your post is "my bet", so please spare me the "Where are you coming from?" lecture, your guess is as good as mine(and in case you are thinking about replying please also spae the "I´m a racing historian" lecture you try to used in a couple of threads).

So: My bet he is making less than with Newman-Haas but it is an F-1 ride and if he does anything another team could sign him, if not then he will be forgotten or back here carring Villenueve's helmet in search of money.
disqualifys everything else posted? Tell me where I am wrong, I gave you examples like this in the above line:
Every car owner from Midgets to F-1 tries to get the driver as cheap as possible and desiring a ride in F-1 automaticly puts the advantage in the car owners hand.
Notice no "My Bet" so in context "my bet" means nothing.



If you like to think the current 500 can get you a seat in a series that has no ovals or a better seat in the case of SB(after all, my post was in response to your original comment that if the merger had been a year earlier SB would have gotten a better seat by winning the 500 and the IndyCar series and that he is bitter because of that) you are free to believe it, don´t ask me to take your opinion as fact.

I gave you a "case" history and in about every F-1 race JPM was sold as the 2000 500 Winner and a CART Champion. I guess F-1 marketing of a driver is only "opinion" and not "fact"


SB was lucky to get that F1 seat, and my guess (which is as valid as yours) is that he got it because F1 guys considered him a good driver before CC, if he did the right or wrong thing by deciding not to sign that contract with Briatore is debatable.

His times were reasonable and he wanted to race F-1. As I was guessing that makes him cheaper to land. The deal he signed was better than the Briatore deal otherwise he would have taken it. It was the difference of a Test Driver to actually racing. Again, I read this in NSSN so it obviously is an "opinion"


Going to what later became CC wasn´t a big help, CC wasn´t close to what CART was in its glory days, IndyCar isn´t close to what CART used to be either(ask Dixon about it), the 500 isn´t what it used to be (ask Wheldon, heck, he has a 500 win and a championship), that is a reality, like it or not.

The World Series is not what it used to be. Everything changes over time. I used to be a pretty fair one on one basketball player when I was 20, but now 34 years later I am not worth a damn.
F-1 is not what I saw in the rain at Nurburgring in 1968 on the old track. It is not what it was when a driver had to throw dirt on a mile in the Midwest.

See I deal in reality many don't. I have seen 1000 races with my wallet, written, reported, worked, officiated, promoted and just watched.
Just my reality and my apologies for that and also being a fan of Seabass. I do wish him well but he has no longer a dog in the fight.

[indycool]

It is true that, since Jeff Gordon couldn't get a CART ride and went to NASCAR, there has been a steady stream of short-track open-wheel drivers go to NASCAR.

And financial structures have put the ICS (or CART or CC) out of reach for talented short-trackers for some time.

Through the years, Bobby and Donnie Allison, Cale Yarborough, LeeRoy Yarbrough and earlier, Curtis Turner tried Indy cars. And through the years, Foyt, Andretti, Sneva, Carter, Rutherford, Simon and others tried stock cars. Rahal even ran one for the Wood Brothers at Riverside.

Then there were guys who wanted to try Indy cars at various stages of their careers, including Darrell Waltrip, Dale Earnhardt, Neil Bonnett and the last one, Ward Burton, who couldn't sort out either the time or the deal.

Then you have those who have done both -- John Andretti, Robby Gordon, Tony Stewart, J.J. Yeley, etc.

To say in general that the "flow" in the U.S. is to NASCAR is true. But to believe that everyone in U.S. racing wants to do F1 is way, way off target. A great many are very happy doing what they're doing...including some of the non-U.S. drivers.

[jarrambide]

This is an statement I agree with completely.

Not getting out of the topic that much but, could you explain to me the "It is true that, since Jeff Gordon couldn't get a CART ride and went to NASCAR" part, I don´t know the story and after reading your post I have to admit I am intrigue as to what is the whole story with Jeff Gordon.

[PSfan]

This is an statement I agree with completely.

Not getting out of the topic that much but, could you explain to me the "It is true that, since Jeff Gordon couldn't get a CART ride and went to NASCAR" part, I don´t know the story and after reading your post I have to admit I am intrigue as to what is the whole story with Jeff Gordon.

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums//showthread.php?t=117961

hope this helps...

[Jag_Warrior]

I don't see that Bourdais' comments are based on bitterness at all. He is criticizing the poor organization and timing of this so called "merger", rather than the deal itself.


“I have a lot of respect for Kevin, but if it was not fun for him anymore and he was sick of losing money or wasting money then I think he could have figured it out at the end of last year, not 30 days before the first race,” he said.
̶( The merger) is very good for the sport; it’s just that it’s going to cause a lot of trouble. A lot of people are going to lose jobs and it’s going to take a long time to rebuild.”

Even racing for Torro Rosso, as a (not so young, in driver years) Frenchman with a French wife, there's no surprise that he would rather end his open wheel career in Europe, tangling with Toyotas and Hondas, rather than going wheel to wheel with Danica, Marco and Milka in the U.S.

From F1, he can then play around in DTM and also do some Le Mans Series racing. If I was a European born racer, that's the path that I would take as well.

[-Helix-]

Yes, we should all be glad for everything TG has done for OW racing. CC owners got tired of losing money, TG didn't. It's not a ship wreck, they threw in the towel.

If it wasn't for TG, KK and GF would still be trying to put on a racing series this year that probably wouldn't make it half way through before going bankrupt.

And then we'd just have one crappy series and one dead series. And a bunch of teams and drivers that would've left AOWR altogether because they wouldn't have TG's handouts and money to start over in a new series.

[indycool]

jarrambide, the link provided by PSFan pretty well tells the story. Gordon was the FIRST driver to win three USAC championships in the same year and he was looking to move up. To my knowledge, he has never said what Indy car teams he approached, or approached him. He quite definitely wanted to move up to Indy cars. Ford got hold of him and started his development toward NASCAR.

[seppefan]

I've not always been a big fan of SB but he is correct in what he says. The problem I have with most of the forums is that it abortion is being called a "MERGER". It wasn't a merger. KK, GF and Co. simply threw in the towel and dumped on anyone aside from themselves associated with CC. If it were a "MERGER", part of the agreement would have likely been to absorb at least some of the staff, be it office, medical, safety, tech, etc. etc. It has been said in the past few days that in fact they didn't buy the medical center and are not absorbing any of the safety team. They have the gonads to give 50 employees their pinkslips without even stopping by the CC offices to express the least bit of gratitude but again that is corporate America. The owners of Champ Car didn't merge, they quit. See you at the ALMS races!

KK quit but GF did not until he realised he would have to .

[garyshell]

KK quit but GF did not until he realised he would have to .


And the difference would be...

KK realized the reality before GF, no more, no less.

Gary

[!!WALDO!!]

jarrambide, the link provided by PSFan pretty well tells the story. Gordon was the FIRST driver to win three USAC championships in the same year and he was looking to move up.

He won a Silver Crown title and a Midget title in different years, Tony Stewart was the first in 1995 and J.J. Yeley did it again recently.

Gordon had a contract with Ford, Ford took him around the CART teams that ran Fords and they demanded money around $16,000,000 from Ford or sponsors. So Ford took $4,000,000 and dumped it into a Busch Team in 1992 and then he was stolen by Hendricks in 1993.
Kasey Kahne was put into a Formula-Ford at RA in 2000, to show case his talent and the same thing happened and it was off the Busch.

[weeflyonthewall]

He won a Silver Crown title and a Midget title in different years, Tony Stewart was the first in 1995 and J.J. Yeley did it again recently.

Gordon had a contract with Ford, Ford took him around the CART teams that ran Fords and they demanded money around $16,000,000 from Ford or sponsors. So Ford took $4,000,000 and dumped it into a Busch Team in 1992 and then he was stolen by Hendricks in 1993.
Kasey Kahne was put into a Formula-Ford at RA in 2000, to show case his talent and the same thing happened and it was off the Busch.

Are you speculating again? Jeff Gordon was looking for a silver spoon when CART was at its finest. If Ford really had $$, he would have run Indy.

BTW, Kasey Kahne ran Atlantic's in 2001.

[!!WALDO!!]

Are you speculating again? Jeff Gordon was looking for a silver spoon when CART was at its finest. If Ford really had $$, he would have run Indy.

Nope, his words to Dave Despain on Windtunnel in 2005.


BTW, Kasey Kahne ran Atlantic's in 2001.

I was there for the show case in 2000 in Formula Fords, link to him driving Atlantics please.

[weeflyonthewall]

Nope, his words to Dave Despain on Windtunnel in 2005.

I was there for the show case in 2000 in Formula Fords, link to him driving Atlantics please.

Every driver has his opinion, especially Jeff Gordon. Take a look at who was racing back then. He thought he was too good to spend a season in Atlantic's or ARS/Lights. Jacques Villeneuve went that route in 1993 and it eventually got him an F1 seat.

Kahne finished 18th in the championship points. He only ran a few races towards the end of the 2001 season to protect his rookie status.
http://www.champcaratlantic.com/Results/Standings.asp?latestSeason=2001