Why do you trust Tony George now??

[bennybigb]

I am very curious why everyone here seems to trust that Tony George will be able to effectively lead formula car racing in North America. It's my opinion he has showed over the last 15 years that he does not know his costumers, and he does not know how to grow the sport of Indy Car racing. Why are his leadership skills all of a sudden more effective?

I'm trying to not be so negative regarding the IRL.

[BobGarage]

i don't trust him.

however, I am willing to put all thoughts of him aside and follow a single, merged, american open wheel racing series.

i don't trust bernie. but i still watch F1. I don't trust the frances but I watch NASCAR. hell, I don't trust the chairman of my football club but I still follow them religously.

[FormerFF]

I don't know that everyone trusts him, but he has the reins and all we can do is wish for the best, and for him to delegate those tasks he doesn't do well.

[garyshell]

i don't trust him.

however, I am willing to put all thoughts of him aside and follow a single, merged, american open wheel racing series.

i don't trust bernie. but i still watch F1. I don't trust the frances but I watch NASCAR. hell, I don't trust the chairman of my football club but I still follow them religously.


I don't know that everyone trusts him, but he has the reins and all we can do is wish for the best, and for him to delegate those tasks he doesn't do well.

Amen. It's called the reality of the situation.

Gary

[bblocker68]

I dont trust him, but I am willing to give a chance to a single leader in a single open wheel series.

I've dealt with too much crap over the last 29 years not to.

[Osiris333]

I do not trust him at all, but I am willing to give the newly formed Indycar a chance, at least until I see the new engine and chasis specs, and the new schedule. If the new car is KrapfenVagon Mark II and the schedule is still oval dominated, I'll fill my non-football Sundays with F-1, the occasional NASCAR race and plenty of walks in the SoCal sunshine.

Just because I'm giving him a year or so to win my support doesn't mean I trust him.

We'll know soon if he wants to turn Indycar racing back into a world class series, or keep it in the realm of the Danicas and Kannans.

[Randy_L]

I don’t trust him at all, nor do I believe that he is qualified to run anything more technical or diverse than a 3-stool hot dog stand. The jury is still out on whether I will ever be able to rekindle any excitement for Indy cars again. I continue to follow other forms of motor sport that happen to carry my interest. Sorry if this sounds harsh. Just the truth.

[Chaparral66]

I do not trust him at all, but I am willing to give the newly formed Indycar a chance, at least until I see the new engine and chasis specs, and the new schedule. If the new car is KrapfenVagon Mark II and the schedule is still oval dominated, I'll fill my non-football Sundays with F-1, the occasional NASCAR race and plenty of walks in the SoCal sunshine.

Just because I'm giving him a year or so to win my support doesn't mean I trust him.

We'll know soon if he wants to turn Indycar racing back into a world class series, or keep it in the realm of the Danicas and Kannans.

Trust doesn't have that much to do with it anymore. This is now Tony G's deal. It's all on him now to make something positive happen over the next few years. History will be the final judge of this thing.

[!!WALDO!!]

Amen. It's called the reality of the situation.

Gary


It is reality. I asked a question in 1979, how can we trust the car owners to make decision based on what was good for the sport and not good for them only. I saw the car count drop from 35 to 28 in three years. I remember the CART "B" series. A place to dump old equipment and develop new drivers and new teams that was killed in favor of a new chassis, new engine and the importer of the March lining his pocket.
Result: 16 cars in the ARS, no new Team Owners and in the 1st 10 years one driver worth anything to come out, Paul Tracy.
Teams drowning in old equipment with no place other than the AIS to dump some cars about 3 of the 50+ new cars. This helped put more teams on the sidelines and by 1991, the Michigan 500 went off with 22 cars.

So will TG screw the pooch? Nope as long as he keeps the best interest of the sport in front of him.

[maximilian]

I have never actually seen Tony George speak before the press conference this week, and I am beginning to understand why some people dislike him so much... he came accross as a pretty bad douchebag, especially when (not) answering the question about Montreal - I mean, what was that? Anyways, let's hope for the best ...

[HiWayStar]

Trust doesn't have that much to do with it anymore. This is now Tony G's deal. It's all on him now to make something positive happen over the next few years. History will be the final judge of this thing.

Amen. Trust doesn't even enter the equation. The Hulmans will either bring back AOWR from the funk it's been in, the last 12 years, or they won't...& if they do not, it will continue its slide into obscurity. It's all on them now...for better...or for worse.

If the show is good, I'll watch, & continue as an OW fan. If not, I'll find something else to follow. Like ALMS, which has revved my interest, as OW became less & less exciting.

I really have ceased to care who leads OW anymore. All of 'em are a bunch of egotistical morons who could care less about the fans, & whomever else they screw. AOWR is a rich man's plaything, by them, about them, for them. Either it provides decent entertainment, or it doesn't, simple as that...

[!!WALDO!!]

Amen. Trust doesn't even enter the equation. The Hulmans will either bring back AOWR from the funk it's been in, the last 12 years, or they won't...& if they do not, it will continue its slide into obscurity. It's all on them now...for better...or for worse.

If the show is good, I'll watch, & continue as an OW fan. If not, I'll find something else to follow. Like ALMS, which has revved my interest, as OW became less & less exciting.

I really have ceased to care who leads OW anymore. All of 'em are a bunch of egotistical morons who could care less about the fans, & whomever else they screw. AOWR is a rich man's plaything, by them, about them, for them. Either it provides decent entertainment, or it doesn't, simple as that...

I try to let things take their course before I get disgusted with things. I can always fall back to a good Sprint Show or Midget Show someplace.
I do not see the sport as less exciting. I sat through many 1-100 laps led from A.J. or Mario in the 1960s. How is that exciting compared to three cars at the start finish line?
One sent people home at the 3/4 mark the other put fans in the stands the next year.
NASCAR had boring races in the 1960s and now have stepped up and will make more fans tonight with qualifying from Las Vegas than Open wheel will make this past week and next week combined.

So let nature take its course and things will work out for the better. My only concern are those that can't let it go wanting to queer the deal as quickly as possible as they believe that KK and GF will wake up and take over and run the IRL like they did CCWS.

[SoCalPVguy]

Back to college football again for an example.

Back in the early 1980's head coach John Robinson ruined the USC Trojans by lack of control resulting in NCAA sanctions that frankly ruined the program for about 8-10 years. So what do they do ? THey bring back Robinson, now know as Robofat, for a second stint in the mid 1990's!!! I hated Robo (and his incompetence once again set the Trojans backwards, thus getting himself fired, but then they brought in the even less competent Paul "can't" hackkett... but I digress...)

The point is that even though I hated Robo and certainly did not trust him an inch, I did not quit supporting our Trojans !!! I still went to very game and gave generously to the school.

So the parallel is === go ahead, hate TG, distrust TG, but do not stop watching open wheel racing - the more fan support and TV viewship, the more the "market" will begin to control the situation and the series manager will become less of a factor.

Who here is an F1 fan that hates Ecclestone (raising my hand...)??? But if you like F1 anyway, does having Bernie in charge make you stop watching ????

[Alexamateo]

....... nor do I believe that he is qualified to run anything more technical or diverse than a 3-stool hot dog stand........

The evidence does not bear this statement out. Under his tutelege, The Indianapolis Motor Speedway now hosts 3 world class events (Indianapolis 500, Brickyard 400, and the US MotoGP) The physical plant is impressive and it's arguably the best-looking, best maintained track in the country. He re-furbished the golf course to championship level and hosted a PGA Senior Tour event for several years, and still holds nationally acclaimed charity events. More people attend events and Tony George sells more tickets at the Speedway now than ever before.

In business, I believe they call that diversifying your product line and increasing your revenue streams.

From what I read now, the speedway is buying up all of the property near the speedway as it becomes availible, and has drawn up a master plan to make the area a destination for hotels shopping and entertainment, all with the speedway as an anchor; more diversity, more revenue streams, yet it still revolves around the primary core business, the track itself.

In my company's main sales meeting last year, we were doing some training excercises and role playing and generally making fun of main competitor. Our owner stood up and got real serious and said, "It's great that we can make fun of our main competitor, but don't think for a minute that they don't have smart capable people who can compete against us." (I should know, I used to work for them! :p : ) "We underestimate them at our peril."

This is not to say every decision he has made has been the right. I am sure Tony George himself would tell you he's made many mistakes along the way, but if the people competing against him buy into the idea that he is the "idiot" grandson, they do so at their peril.

[jimispeed]

Tony George could bring alot of Champcar fans with him if he embraced the assets that are obvious, and didn't let Champcar just die in his hands!!

I know how much open wheel racing means to me, and I could come to terms with Tony George, if he were to do these things compassionately....

[garyshell]

Tony George could bring alot of Champcar fans with him if he embraced the assets that are obvious, and didn't let Champcar just die in his hands!!

I know how much open wheel racing means to me, and I could come to terms with Tony George, if he were to do these things compassionately....


Jimi,

Which assets are you thinking about. I know the trophy was one. What else?

Gary

[jimispeed]

Jimi,

Which assets are you thinking about. I know the trophy was one. What else?

Gary


I tried to make this short and sweet. When he spoke at the press conference, Tony George seemed to embrace what assets Champcar has to strengthen Indycar, and bring back open wheel to it's glory. Of course there is alot of work to be done in other areas too, but I was speaking of the great courses, car design, turbo's, and the legacy that should be embedded into Indycar.

People may disagree, but when he bought Champcar, he's now holding its heart.

[-Helix-]

He learned his lesson and realized he was wrong. He's lucky he's getting a second chance and he has control of the series AND the 500 which was all he really wanted in the first place.

He's not going to take advantage of it and mess things up again when he has all he ever wanted and knows that there won't be a third chance.

This is AOWR's last chance to become a major racing series again and he's going to do whats best for the sport this time. No doubt in my mind.

[timshag]

He learned his lesson and realized he was wrong. He's lucky he's getting a second chance and he has control of the series AND the 500 which was all he really wanted in the first place.

He's not going to take advantage of it and mess things up again when he has all he ever wanted and knows that there won't be a third chance.

This is AOWR's last chance to become a major racing series again and he's going to do whats best for the sport this time. No doubt in my mind.

BINGO!

Two reasons why you CAN trust Tony George:
1. He mentioned he wanted to get where CART used to be.
That my friends is a very very serious shift from where he was in 1996 when he broke away.
He was going to be an all ovals series at that point.

2. He takes care of his own.
He has had this intent all along.
He has propped up drivers, teams, and even started one of his own.
If you are under his umbrella, you are friend.
Champcar teams (ne Forsythe) are "under" him now.

I still am ticked at Tony.
It was jackass logic that led him to split the series.
But he has what he wants now....CONTROL.
I believe he'll do everything he can to make it work now.

I just hope we can get back to the DP01 and turbo engines.
I hate the EARL Cars.
They are butt ugly and run on silly power. (10k rev limit??!!)

Tony is as stubborn as a jackass.
There are strengths and weaknesses to that.

Peace.

[Chris R]

It is not like we have to rust the guy anyway - it is his show and we can either watch or not on a race by race basis. Regardless of how we feel about the guy it is going to take time to fully embrace the unified series and it is going to take results to build/rebuild a truly loyal fanbase....

[DBell]

i don't trust him.

however, I am willing to put all thoughts of him aside and follow a single, merged, american open wheel racing series.

i don't trust bernie. but i still watch F1. I don't trust the frances but I watch NASCAR. hell, I don't trust the chairman of my football club but I still follow them religously.

BobGarage posted my answer for me. Except the part about watching NASCAR. (WTF BobGarage?? Watching Cabs?? :D )
And for me football means NFL, not soccer. ;)

[nigelred5]

Trust him? good lord no. I'm not confindent that he will even add a single CC race to the schedule yet. He can play it along until CCWS formally shuts down and then drop them like a bad habit claimaing them as unsuccessful, unprofitable and financially unmanageable.

I am a realist though. This is what is needed for any chance at a long term survival of American open wheel and it's pretty clear now that CCWS was not gonna answer the bell in 08.

[Easy Drifter]

As has been pointed out it is now Tony's show and he can do as he wants. We just hope that it it will work, wether we like how he does it or not. Trust has diddley squat to do with it.
If it falls flat there is ALMS, Grand am, sprint cars etc. and the taxi cabs of tomorrow (UGH). (The 1st race car I drove was a Chev on dirt.)
I remember when the Bruce and Denny show (Can AM) was bigger than USAC. Trans Am had all the factories in it, more than NAPCAR. Formula Atlantic in NA was huge, considered better than F2. 2 World champions came out of FA plus Gilles. There were usually one or two F1 drivers on their way up or down. Umpteen Indy car/ CART drivers including MA and BR came out of Atlantics. As long as we have cars there will be interestting racing. Heck I enjoy going to see a club race at Mosport and short track Stockers. TQ midgets can be a blast and they are faster than any V8 on a 1/4 mile.
There will be something to watch plus all the Int'l stuff.

[!!WALDO!!]

He learned his lesson and realized he was wrong. He's lucky he's getting a second chance and he has control of the series AND the 500 which was all he really wanted in the first place.

The Hulman Family controled the 500 from 1946 to today. USAC was formed once AAA went out for one race, the 500 as the center piece of what remained of the AAA Sprints, Midgets, Stock Cars and Big Cars.

LeMans, the so called largest and most important race in the world told the FIA that they no longer wanted them as the sanction of the 24 hour race. They did that before, TG decided to schedule 2 races, no conflicts before the 1996 500. So for almost 20 years LeMans sanctions their own race and has an American rep in the ALMS although some rules are different as LeMans requires a Prototype 1 to win the race overall, ALMS does not.

Was LeMans wrong for kicking out the FIA? Was Tony George wrong for starting a series under the banner of USAC that have sanctioned the 500 for 40 years prior to the 1996 race? In both cases, since they are the risk taker then they can do what is required to minimumize the risk.

Let's say, you put $15,000,000 up for a race. The sanction tells you how you must spend every dollar to the point that your accountants tell you the best that can happen is you lose $5,000,000 and you have a 5 year contract. What would you do? Lose $25,000,000 or find a way to lose less or make money? Another sanction says for $10,000,000 you can do this and that you can spend the money the way that allows you to make money. Your accounts look at it and says you will lose in year one around $500,000 and breakeven in year two and make $500,000 in year three in theory.

Which way would you go?

[Jag_Warrior]

Do I trust Tony George? No, I don't trust Tony George... or anyone else. Why would I? I wouldn't hand my wallet to Don Panoz any quicker than I would Tony George. I like Panoz a lot more, but that would be a perfectly stupid thing to do.

But one thing I do believe: the IRL will either deliver a better product and promote it better than it has over the past twelve years or so, or it will (continue to) struggle to attract sponsors, teams, (paid) drivers... and fans. I'm seeing that two unsuccessful racing organizations have now become one. Time will tell how that works out. But thus far, I'm not aware that any major changes are in the works to make casual fans care.

Unlike some, I don't feel that AOWR owes me anything. And I don't feel that I owe it anything. If it makes it, it makes it. If it doesn't, then it doesn't.

Only when presented with a product that I am interested in, will I pull out my credit card.

[jimispeed]

Only when presented with a product that I am interested in, will I pull out my credit card.


Exactly!!

I am a Champcar fan, but I'm also a fan of open wheel. If the right changes are made, then I'll watch, and I'll promote the series!!

[!!WALDO!!]

Do I trust Tony George? No, I don't trust Tony George... or anyone else. Why would I? I wouldn't hand my wallet to Don Panoz any quicker than I would Tony George. I like Panoz a lot more, but that would be a perfectly stupid thing to do.

Trusting anyone in this sport is dangerous at best. I have seen much brighter bulbs than the son of "that lettuce picker from Salinas, CA" as Tony Hulman would always say. Trick to it is putting people in place that do not have a "dog in the fight". Much different than CART.


But one thing I do believe: the IRL will either deliver a better product and promote it better than it has over the past twelve years or so, or it will (continue to) struggle to attract sponsors, teams, (paid) drivers... and fans. I'm seeing that two unsuccessful racing organizations have now become one. Time will tell how that works out. But thus far, I'm not aware that any major changes are in the works to make casual fans care.

Want more fans and happy fans? You need drivers that do not require pronouncing lessons. I know, I know but this is why there are more people right now in the stands for a Nationwide race than what the CCWS got in two races at Las Vegas.


Unlike some, I don't feel that AOWR owes me anything. And I don't feel that I owe it anything. If it makes it, it makes it. If it doesn't, then it doesn't.

I paid my dues along time ago, as you may have. I agree totally with this statement as it is the attitude that all should have.


Only when presented with a product that I am interested in, will I pull out my credit card.

Actually all forms of 4 wheel racing interests me. One thing that bothers me is car count, that to me turns me off quicker. No competition.

[fugariracing]

In the above post, well with all the ex-OW foreigners moving into NASCAR they may wind up having to teach those pronouncing lessons after all!

As far as trusting TG, it's hard to trust a guy who broke up your sport and then won it out for his own ego by making less mistakes than the other guy. But now that he has the one series in his control, and a bulk of the fans that come with it, it's his to make or break and I'll give him a shot, if only a small one at that.

[!!WALDO!!]

In the above post, well with all the ex-OW foreigners moving into NASCAR they may wind up having to teach those pronouncing lessons after all!

3 or 4 or 5 drivers is not enough to change things. Truth is a Villuenve is required to bring money otherwise no ride. A World Champ gets no favor in NASCAR



As far as trusting TG, it's hard to trust a guy who broke up your sport and then won it out for his own ego by making less mistakes than the other guy.

Really, did you ever hear of the Championship Racing League?
See race tracks do not let the competitors set the rules. I remember a 63 car street stock class that wanted to establish their own rules at a race track. Once the rules went into place the car count was down in the mid 30s and within 3 years under 14. The 14 left were the guys that supplied parts and cars to the rest of the competitors and did not support the program as time went on. So they killed their sport.
First Michigan 500 had 34 cars, 10 years later 22 cars. Who did that?


But now that he has the one series in his control, and a bulk of the fans that come with it, it's his to make or break and I'll give him a shot, if only a small one at that.

Actually what track should be the center of the sport? CART moved from Troy, MI to Indianapolis, the ICS is based there, the cars are called Indy Cars and the Hulman-George Family owns the Indianapolis Motor Speedway and its sanction, the Indy Racing League. So who do you think has more money at risk in this deal? The H-G Family or you or me or the red headed step child?

So I look at it this way, get over the anger. Realize that we need to move on and hatred only causes stress and stress can ruin your health.

Enjoy what you got and move on to other forms if you need too. I am watching Vickers crash right now.

Why watch a Nationwide Race? Because it is an Auto Race and all racing is good.

[Cart750hp]

I am very curious why everyone here seems to trust that Tony George will be able to effectively lead formula car racing in North America. It's my opinion he has showed over the last 15 years that he does not know his costumers, and he does not know how to grow the sport of Indy Car racing. Why are his leadership skills all of a sudden more effective?

I'm trying to not be so negative regarding the IRL.

IMHO, I never trusted TG and so as GF and KK. I never put trust on these guys, for what?

TG run IndyCar as a business just like KK and GF they did to CC. TG got the money to burn so he's the man to ran the IndyCar. Bottomline.

[-Helix-]

Trust him? good lord no. I'm not confindent that he will even add a single CC race to the schedule yet.

I believe Long Beach and Edmonton have both been confirmed already..

[Dennis H.]

they can trust him, just ask Penske and Ganassi. There is a saying among the teams that are former Champ Car teams and it goes something like, "be careful what you ask for with Tony, you might get it"

[fugariracing]

3 or 4 or 5 drivers is not enough to change things. Truth is a Villuenve is required to bring money otherwise no ride. A World Champ gets no favor in NASCAR.

Can't take a joke, eh? It's funny hearing the guys at ESPN say Montoya, Franchitti, Carpentier etc, thats all.




Really, did you ever hear of the Championship Racing League?

Yes briefly, but as a younger fan I was not familiar with ever seeing it. So naturally those who have followed OW for a long period of time would have a better understanding.



Actually what track should be the center of the sport? CART moved from Troy, MI to Indianapolis, the ICS is based there, the cars are called Indy Cars and the Hulman-George Family owns the Indianapolis Motor Speedway and its sanction, the Indy Racing League. So who do you think has more money at risk in this deal? The H-G Family or you or me or the red headed step child?

Obviously the H-G Family and TG. We're just fans.


So I look at it this way, get over the anger. Realize that we need to move on and hatred only causes stress and stress can ruin your health.

Enjoy what you got and move on to other forms if you need too. I am watching Vickers crash right now.

Why watch a Nationwide Race? Because it is an Auto Race and all racing is good.

Above diatribe seems like Yoda talking to Anakin Skywalker in Star Wars Episode I....

I am not angry at all about the proceedings, I am ready to see only one series and I don't care if TG is in charge of it. Personally as a younger fan seeing two series made no sense and I have never particularly liked TG, but now that there is only one I'm sticking with it and giving TG a chance. Just in general AOWR is a niche market and it is very small population of fans that are young and have maintained interest throughout the split. I'm not exclusively AOWR fan, I have followed F1 the last dozen years, NASCAR, ALMS and Rolex on-and-off so they're there still to watch if I so choose.

[!!WALDO!!]

Can't take a joke, eh? It's funny hearing the guys at ESPN say Montoya, Franchitti, Carpentier etc, thats all.

Those guys have been saying those names for awhile. Dario 6th today and Patrick 9th so a good day for those guys.



Yes briefly, but as a younger fan I was not familiar with ever seeing it. So naturally those who have followed OW for a long period of time would have a better understanding.

It was the peace deal of 1980 and my friend John Cooper the then President of IMS killed it do to not wanting the car owners set the rules. Note my example of the Street Stocks.


Obviously the H-G Family and TG. We're just fans.

We are not just fans, we can vote by not going or going thus affecting the revenue stream so we are an important part of this.



I am not angry at all about the proceedings, I am ready to see only one series and I don't care if TG is in charge of it. Personally as a younger fan seeing two series made no sense and I have never particularly liked TG, but now that there is only one I'm sticking with it and giving TG a chance. Just in general AOWR is a niche market and it is very small population of fans that are young and have maintained interest throughout the split. I'm not exclusively AOWR fan, I have followed F1 the last dozen years, NASCAR, ALMS and Rolex on-and-off so they're there still to watch if I so choose.

I am just commenting about those who hate TG and dislike this deal. Personally if I was in TG's shoes I would have done nothing and picked up what was left.
The real negative people would have blamed him for that as they claim he surrendered. I would have let the chips fall where they may.

We all got to get past this an move in a direction that make sense for all involved and be really unified otherwise the sponsors will stay away.

[Alexamateo]

.....


It was the peace deal of 1980 and my friend John Cooper the then President of IMS killed it do to not wanting the car owners set the rules. Note my example of the Street Stocks.......





I agree with you on the hazards of letting the car owners make the rules. I always find it ironic that one of the first people adversely affected by this was the one who perhaps started it all Dan Gurney.

http://www.champcarworldseries.com/News/Article.asp?ID=6070&Print=True



“They found out that if you squirted it dfirectly onto the warm inlet valve was the best place to do it, and that was essentially what we did,” Gurney grins. “So that was fascinating. It’s always fun to find an inadvertant historic link to things you’re doing. But the redcoats pulled the plug on us.”

Indeed, AAR’s engine and aero concepts were outlawed by CART. “The powers-that-be didn’t understand it and didn’t like the fact that it humbled them,” Gurney notes. “Therefore they took the political route and changed the rules on us on some half-baked concept. There was no precedent or legitimate reason for doing it that way. It was just a strong-arm deal that took what was a very promising American concept and rule it out. It was another lesson in majority rules.”

[!!WALDO!!]

I agree with you on the hazards of letting the car owners make the rules. I always find it ironic that one of the first people adversely affected by this was the one who perhaps started it all Dan Gurney.

http://www.champcarworldseries.com/News/Article.asp?ID=6070&Print=True


Yes and the car owners set the rules until the IPO and they were in year 3 of a 5 year Chassis/Engine deal.

It always worked against the sport to have that occur. It eliminated competition year after year.

[BenRoethig]

I am very curious why everyone here seems to trust that Tony George will be able to effectively lead formula car racing in North America. It's my opinion he has showed over the last 15 years that he does not know his costumers, and he does not know how to grow the sport of Indy Car racing. Why are his leadership skills all of a sudden more effective?

I'm trying to not be so negative regarding the IRL.

I don't trust him, but he holds the only card that matters so it's really a moot point. However, I slightly am encouraged that he has shown the ability to change when required.