Ethanol not safe for street vehicles?

[CCFan]

Sorry I can't copy it, but an article that I read in today's edition of my local paper (Orange County Register) was based on an interview with Ed Plaugher of the Int'l Association of Fire Chiefs & was about city fire crews expressing their concern that ethanol fires from street vehicle accidents were harder to put out than gasoline fires. They're concerned that the problem will get worse as the use of ethanol increases, especially with tanker truck fires.

The article went on to actually say that "water doesn't put out the ethanol fire" & because an ethanol fire will eat right through the foam they normally use against gasoline, they're having to aquire a special alcohol-resistent foam to fight the ethanol fires.

This was surprising as its saying the exact opposite of why Indycars changed from gasoline to ethanol.

Has anyone else heard this?

[gofastandwynn]

The article went on to actually say that "water doesn't put out the ethanol fire"

?

They are both a alcohol based chemical, the water would mix and dilute the ethanol, same as it would with methanol. If it were oil, then that would be a different story.

[geek49203]

Having spent 3 weekends in IRL pits last summer, I have a few thoughts:

1. My local fire chief wants to eliminate BBQ grills, saying they're a major fire hazard. Down the street, they tried to ban candlelight services in churches. Fire marshals love to find new hazards to ban so they can get top press in the fire marshals' convention.

2. Ethanol is basically moonshine ("Everclear"), 200-proof hootch. It does burn like any alcohol fire, but as any Indy fan knows, a bunch of water kills it pretty quickly. A fire from ethanol would basically be akin to a fire at the Jack Daniels distillery. If the firefighters want to prevent further fires, they can always drink the stuff (okay, they put stuff in it to make it undrinkable, but you get the idea).

3. Unlike methanol-based fuels, it's harmless if it makes contact with the skin. I've watched pit crew guys strip in a HUGE F**KING HURRY and dive for the nearest water barrel when they got soaked with traditional racing fuel, as the stuff is really nasty when it hits the BVD areas.

4. There are hazards in storage -- as I recall, pushing it thru pipelines is problematic right now. However, Fire Marshal Bill didn't say a word about storage problems, did he?

5. It smells like "apple cider with a beer in it" or "grandma's Apple Jack" when it burns. No more watering eyes, etc as in CART's methanol days.

[nigelred5]

Buut dayumm, that sweet smell and those watering eyes are one of the things I remember and for some reason enjoyed so much. Somewhere I still have my shirt "I love the smell of methanol in the morning". at least the microsprints at my local track still run methanol.

[Champcar4life]

Having spent 3 weekends in IRL pits last summer, I have a few thoughts:

1. My local fire chief wants to eliminate BBQ grills, saying they're a major fire hazard. Down the street, they tried to ban candlelight services in churches. Fire marshals love to find new hazards to ban so they can get top press in the fire marshals' convention.

2. Ethanol is basically moonshine ("Everclear"), 200-proof hootch. It does burn like any alcohol fire, but as any Indy fan knows, a bunch of water kills it pretty quickly. A fire from ethanol would basically be akin to a fire at the Jack Daniels distillery. If the firefighters want to prevent further fires, they can always drink the stuff (okay, they put stuff in it to make it undrinkable, but you get the idea).

3. Unlike methanol-based fuels, it's harmless if it makes contact with the skin. I've watched pit crew guys strip in a HUGE F**KING HURRY and dive for the nearest water barrel when they got soaked with traditional racing fuel, as the stuff is really nasty when it hits the BVD areas.

4. There are hazards in storage -- as I recall, pushing it thru pipelines is problematic right now. However, Fire Marshal Bill didn't say a word about storage problems, did he?

5. It smells like "apple cider with a beer in it" or "grandma's Apple Jack" when it burns. No more watering eyes, etc as in CART's methanol days.


In other words my car is a alcoholic drunk.

[geek49203]

Buut dayumm, that sweet smell and those watering eyes are one of the things I remember and for some reason enjoyed so much. Somewhere I still have my shirt "I love the smell of methanol in the morning". at least the microsprints at my local track still run methanol.

I remember talking to an EDS (remember when EDS did timing and scoring for CART?) employee at MIS during a CART race. She was pregnant, but she was sure that the baby was already used to the fumes. A while later, tho, she did tell me that this was her last race for the season.

The Feds required the IRL to put 2% gasoline into the ethanol to make it undrinkable. Otherwise, it would be pure moonshine. The irony, of course, is that NASCAR got its start with moonshiners who sometimes ran their hooch as fuel....

[geek49203]

In other words my car is a alcoholic drunk.

The stuff that used to fuel the infield at Indy now powers the cars?

BTW, this is the legacy of Paul Dana. Paul brought the Ethanol people into the IRL, and I much prefer to think of him in those terms (and the nice guy he was) than the awful footage of him going head-first into the side of a gearbox/motor.

[call_me_andrew]

The stuff that used to fuel the infield at Indy now powers the cars?

It has come full oval.

You love that pun and you know it.

[garyshell]

It has come full oval.

You love that pun and you know it.


Yes!!! :s mokin:

Gary