stop the bitching!

[stevelovesracing]

i swear. you people hate the split, you hate the merger. honestly, i think you'd hate anything! re-unification is a great thing. it will take a few years, but indycar racing and the indianapolis 500 will be restored to its former luster. the only real frustration for me is that after 12 years of deconstructing indy car racing, we are left right where we began, mostly foreign drivers, high priced cars, limited sponsorship, too many boring road and street courses, and engine leasing. it's cart 1995 all over again. the split ultimately accomplished NOTHING except to let nascar take the lead as america's number one form of auto racing. as for the "crapwagons" i hear about all the time. those high downforce, lower horsepower cars have given us some of the greatest racing in u.s. motorsports history. i like innovation as much as the next fan, but the fact is, "spec" type chassis and engines deliver the closest racing, and that's why i'm there, finishes so close they need a computer to tell the difference. it's a new day people, and i for one can't wait to see it!!

[dataman1]

Read your own tag line. You are doing exactly what you told us to stop.

[bblocker68]

Should we start the countdown????? DOH!

Can I bitch about people who bitch about people bitching? How about bitching about people who have 3rd person usernames?

-bblocker68lovesbitching

[DBell]

Great first post. Come in and tell us how we should all feel. Inform us if we get rid of street and road courses everyone should be whistling zipidy do da out our collective a$$. It worked so well previously when the IRL was all oval all the time, let's do it again! :dozey:

[BobGarage]

what bitching?

i swear this forum has been a much more enjoyable place to be since the announcement on Friday than it has been in months!

[DBell]

what bitching?

i swear this forum has been a much more enjoyable place to be since the announcement on Friday than it has been in months!

I agree BobGarage. It's been nice to not see the weekly "my series sucks a little less than your series" threads. :)

[bblocker68]

It has definitely come around since the last couple of weeks. So many names from the past have popped in to voice their views. It's nice to see posts from people other than the usual 10 that are in evey post.

[SFChamp]

Hey we have a right to b******
After what TG has done to ow over the past 12 years
your dam right I'm mad
and to boot they want us to watch Crap Wagons

SF Champ :(

[jimispeed]

Hey we have a right to b******
After what TG has done to ow over the past 12 years
your dam right I'm mad
and to boot they want us to watch Crap Wagons

SF Champ :(

I'm not happy about the car/engine thing either, but after watching TG/KK on "Wind Tunnel", I think he seems to be very coooperative and open about what direction things need to go.

Will he fully embrace what is out there to be done? It will determine how much I support it.

No need to bitch anymore.

But, some really great ideas for the future of OW is always welcome IMO!!

[-Helix-]

Hey we have a right to b******
After what TG has done to ow over the past 12 years
your dam right I'm mad
and to boot they want us to watch Crap Wagons

SF Champ :(

Well if you want to keep living in the past go right ahead.

The rest of us will finally be enjoying some RACING for the first time in 12 years.

I'm no fan of TG either but I still want this sport to succeed. American Open Wheel trumps all other forms of racing and I want to see a return to the glory days of the early 90's. So please don't hold us back and continue to bring down this series and it's fans to your level just because you have a personal hatred for somebody that has surpassed your love of racing.

The future is bright. And that's the most important thing.

[Phoenixent]

Hey we have a right to b******
After what TG has done to ow over the past 12 years
your dam right I'm mad
and to boot they want us to watch Crap Wagons

SF Champ :(

I think that it's time to move on with the blame Tony George line. No body ever pointed the finger at the CART owners for their screw up. I have been watching Champ Cars since 1970 and CCWS went away like USAC when CART took charge. At least KK and crew saved us the degrading that USAC did at Pocono 1981. I could just see the screaming as DP01's and Swift 016 racing against each other.

The cars away's change so enough of the C*** W***** line also.

[CCWS77]

Well if you want to keep living in the past go right ahead.

The rest of us will finally be enjoying some RACING for the first time in 12 years.



I completely disagree. THose who liked Champ Car and were looking for it to improve in the future were living in the past? Well maybe there are some on both sides who are but I had fun this past season watching the racing.

"Living in the past" applies to everyone who decided it had to be destroyed and disassembled in order to attempt to rewind to the way things were 12 years ago. If living in nostalgia and trying to duplicate what existed a decade or two ago is what many want to do and the whole point of all this, well I wish people would at least admit that and not pretend like this path is actually a logical way FORWARD as we are zooming back.

It is those in favor of the living in the past who have won. If the experiment of trying to recreate something that is gone can work, I guess we will see.

[pvtjoker]

what bitching?

i swear this forum has been a much more enjoyable place to be since the announcement on Friday than it has been in months!


I agree. Sure, there is going to take some time for everyone to get use to the idea of a merged series with a merged cars and race dates/venues, but the prospects of seeing these great drivers/teams mix it up on the track TOGETHER is promising and what keeps me interested like never before since the old CART days.

[Rex Monaco]

THose who liked Champ Car and were looking for it to improve in the future were living in the past?

No. They were living in denial. There was no evidence during the last few years that Champ Car would ever have improved. In fact, the evidence showed the opposite.

[nigelred5]

I'm not totally all sunshine and roses about the way it went down, but this is what was needed to happen a long time ago. We get it, a lot of people harbor a lot of resentment. Theree was PLENTY of blame on both sides for many years from the start to go around. Time to Move on. Take that over to the site where you have plenty of company. I save my bitching and crying for that side. I'm here to support the sport and the teams that I've continued to follow and actually talk about the racing!

[BobGarage]

No. They were living in denial. There was no evidence during the last few years that Champ Car would ever have improved. In fact, the evidence showed the opposite.

and any IRL fan whole thinks the IRL was in a better state than Champ Car is also in denial.

The war is over. no one won! the car count is down from what it was before the split. the Tv ratings are down from before the split. the at track attendance is down from before the split. The sponsor numbers/$'s are down from before the split. The on track product is not as good as it was before the split.

No one won the war. But its over. Forget about the "my series is/was better than your series" bull****. They were both on their deathbeds.

Lets just enjoy the fact we have one series again. And lets just concentrate on the racing and improving the once great sport of American Open Wheel racing!

[Rex Monaco]

and any IRL fan whole thinks the IRL was in a better state than Champ Car is also in denial.

The war is over. no one won! the car count is down from what it was before the split. the Tv ratings are down from before the split. the at track attendance is down from before the split. The sponsor numbers/$'s are down from before the split. The on track product is not as good as it was before the split.

No one won the war. But its over. Forget about the "my series is/was better than your series" bull****. They were both on their deathbeds.

Lets just enjoy the fact we have one series again. And lets just concentrate on the racing and improving the once great sport of American Open Wheel racing!

Exactly!

[Blancvino]

I agree. Sure, there is going to take some time for everyone to get use to the idea of a merged series with a merged cars and race dates/venues, but the prospects of seeing these great drivers/teams mix it up on the track TOGETHER is promising and what keeps me interested like never before since the old CART days.

Let’s see …
I did not like or respect him before the (choke) “merge”
I did not like his vision
I did not full throttle oval racing
I did not like his cars
I did not like his engines

Now he is the boss
Now his vision is the standard
Now the races are on his tracks
Now divers wheel his cars
Now cars use his engines

Am I the only one who smells the fragrance of turds?

I’ve heard the phases like “get over it”, “time to move on”, etc. For what? To support a series I dislike, a leader who I have no respect for, cars I am not enamored with. So … I should bite the bullet and say it’s for the better good of the sport and fall into line. There are a lot of people that are bigger men women than me because I cannot in good conscience fall into line.

I have tried to find a way to support this endeavor but I just cannot.

Good luck with you new series.

[champcarray]

Frankly, while many of us are hopeful for the future of AOWR, we are not thrilled with the current state of affairs. I'm sure I'll watch some of the racing this year, but the series I have followed for the past 25 years just died and I'm not ready to shack up with the only AOWR girl in town just yet.

[nigelred5]

Has anyone tried to stay friends with both sides of a divorced couple? It's admittedly damn near impossible and usually ends up that you pick sides or you quit being friends with either. Occasionally they actually reconcile. I'm trying to believe the reconciliation will work for now. I'm not going to go around saying "It'll never work" just to be a thorn in someone's side. Hopefully all of tose that say "I'm done, I'm going to follow ALMS" do so, because quite frankly, I've rarely, if ever gone on a discussion board about the ALMS. They can take up the ALMS/Grand AM fight and ruin both of those series. It is the same battle. Try choosing sides in that fight! Even the manufacturers have more or less avioded that one.


Not supporting the series is of course a personal choice, but there is no way an openwheel series will ever survive for long in this country without including IMS in the mix. I never agreed with a large majority of the management decisions ever made by CART or CCWS any more than I did TG's original decision to start the IRL, but as long as he and his family own and/or control IMS and the 500, they will ultimately have control over major league Openwheel racing in the US. I've resolved myself to that long ago. If he continues to defer management decisions to professionals that actually know what they are doing like Barnhart, all the better. Now that the confusion is done, things will improve in time, that I am confident of.

[garyshell]

Let’s see …
I did not like or respect him before the (choke) “merge”
I did not like his vision
I did not full throttle oval racing
I did not like his cars
I did not like his engines

Now he is the boss
Now his vision is the standard
Now the races are on his tracks
Now divers wheel his cars
Now cars use his engines

Am I the only one who smells the fragrance of turds?

I’ve heard the phases like “get over it”, “time to move on”, etc. For what? To support a series I dislike, a leader who I have no respect for, cars I am not enamored with. So … I should bite the bullet and say it’s for the better good of the sport and fall into line. There are a lot of people that are bigger men women than me because I cannot in good conscience fall into line.

I have tried to find a way to support this endeavor but I just cannot.

Good luck with you new series.

Every single point there references "...king George". And I agree with your assessment of him. But he is not the only PERSON involved.

What of the hundreds of other REAL LIVE BREATHING PEOPLE in the series? What of the drivers? What of the mechanics? What of the office workers? What of the folks in the paddock? What of the truck drivers? Do you hate them all too? Are you unwilling to support THEM despite your hatred for "...king George". It was when I was finally able to answer that question truthfully, that I realized yep I can get past it. Bitter pill it was, I was NOT going to let it make me turn my back on all of those fine folks, some of whom I actually got to meet over the past 20+ years as a fan.

No, I will never like, tolerate or embrace "...king George". But I will not let that stop me from supporting the other folks who do not deserve to be lumped into that same stew that they had no part in creating.

blancovino, you and I have shared a lot of common opinion over the years on the CCWS forum. I have always seen you as one of the more reasonably minded folks in the forum. I find it hard to believe that you are turning your back on everyone in the series because of one person. Please mull that over, my friend, before you walk away!

Gary

[CCWS77]

In 2007 it was somehow living in denial to want to just watch CC racing and tell you guys to stop bitching. Suddenly some paperwork is signed and everyone does a 180. Let's all just watch the racing and be happy and not examine the series critically at all!

Guess what that 180 flip goes both ways. There are going to be a lot of people pointing out every single misstep this league makes. It is only being a "realist". I think some of you who are currently estatic better get used to it.