Cosworth rebuilding Honda's engines?

[CCFan]

An article on AR1's Rumors page about the possibility of Cosworth going out of business states that Penske is now gone from Ilmor & that Cosworth may be used to rebuild Honda's engines, thus keeping Cossie involved with racing.

Does anyone know why wouldn't Honda rebuild its own engines?

[Hotlavaaaa]

It's possible that Honda doesn't have the capability to maintain engines for 25+ full time teams. Cosworth does a lot more than just rebuild CC engines so I don't see how that work ending would cause them to go out of business.

[!!WALDO!!]

An article on AR1's Rumors page about the possibility of Cosworth going out of business states that Penske is now gone from Ilmor & that Cosworth may be used to rebuild Honda's engines, thus keeping Cossie involved with racing.

Does anyone know why wouldn't Honda rebuild its own engines?

Ilmor has been building the Honda engine in the IRL since day one. It is really no different than the Chevy Indy Engine as it was an Ilmor and just a badge job or the Mercedes of the mid 1990's again just a badged Ilmor.

More than likely it is wishful thinking that Cosworth will be rebuilding Ilmor engines.

[dataman1]

As I recall, the AR1 rumor stated that Cosworth was most likely out of the "racing business" not the other work Cosworth does. Later he gave an update of hearing rumors about Ilmor being out and Cosworth would be in.

I would speculate that this could have been a piece of the agreement between KK and TG and TG gave Roger a call who saw the value in the 2 series being one. Again, speculation 100%.

I have heard that Cosworth truck drivers in Indy as well as engineers in California have been layed off.

[nigelred5]

I suppose Honda doesn't really care about the design of the engine since it wasn't orginally theirs to begin with. That would sorta be a strange turn around with Cosworth rebuilding Ilmors. Cosworth was synonomous with Ford and built all of the Ford Indycar and Champcar V8's. Ilmor built the Chevy/Mercedes turboV8's in Indycar. Then in the IRL Chevys became a badged Cosworth and Ilmors were now Hondas. Now Cosworth could be rebuilding the engine that drove the Chevy /Cosworth's out of indycar racing. I think I'll believe that one when I see it.

[Chaparral66]

I suppose Honda doesn't really care about the design of the engine since it wasn't orginally theirs to begin with. That would sorta be a strange turn around with Cosworth rebuilding Ilmors. Cosworth was synonomous with Ford and built all of the Ford Indycar and Champcar V8's. Ilmor built the Chevy/Mercedes turboV8's in Indycar. Then in the IRL Chevys became a badged Cosworth and Ilmors were now Hondas. Now Cosworth could be rebuilding the engine that drove the Chevy /Cosworth's out of indycar racing. I think I'll believe that one when I see it.

I'm not sure that the IRL Chevy V8 became a badged Cosworth. If memory serves, the engine was a design by Cosworth ready to go in CART should the Heitzler notion of going normally aspirated engines went through, and could have been easliy converted over to the IRL if it came to it. Chevy came to Cosworth for help in this area and got it (with ironic blessing from Ford who owned Cosworth at the time) when the Ilmor unit they had been using wasn't as competitive. Honda came in and put some money into the Ilmor unit and got some improvements that made the difference. That's a short recounting of history, but if anyone has a different recollection, please chime in.

[nigelred5]

In the season before Chevy pulled out ot the IRL totally, they had started the season with their own terribly underpowered engine. Partially through the season to regain some competetive results, Chevy purchased the stillborn IRL spec Cosworth engine to complete the season as a Chevy. The IRL approved the change even though there was supposed to be no engine development. It was my understanding that this was the same engine Honda eventually badged, though I could be mistaken on that last part. They have switched from 3.5L to 3.0L and back to 3.5L with the switch to ethanol. In any event, I do believe that the current Honda was the ILMOR engine, not the Cosworth, but a full time IRL'er from those seasons could clarify that last part.

[BoilerIMS]

It was my understanding that this was the same engine Honda eventually badged, though I could be mistaken on that last part. They have switched from 3.5L to 3.0L and back to 3.5L with the switch to ethanol. In any event, I do believe that the current Honda was the ILMOR engine, not the Cosworth, but a full time IRL'er from those seasons could clarify that last part.

Here's my memory of the situation:

1. The Chevy V8 they started with in 2003 was a GM-design, but it was way down on power compared to the Honda and Toyota engines. (Interestingly, Hornish did stay on the lead lap at Indy for like 150 laps before his Chevy engine blew. Methinks they tweaked the engine a little too far.)
2. Chevy subbed their V8 for the Cosworth-designed engine that had been destined for CART when CART decided to have an an engine spec more or less identical to the IRL. That engine was collecting dust after CART went back to the 2.65l turbo. The engine was "qualified" to replace the Chevy engine because it had been approved by the IRL, even though it had never raced. Cosworth was initially responsible for rebuilding the engines and, after GM bought the design outright, Speedway Engine Development did the rebuilds and continued some development.
3. The Hondy Indy V8 engine began life as an Ilmor design, and when CART introduced the 3.5l NA spec, Honda contracted with Ilmor for the design. That engine obviously went to the IRL alone. Per IRL rules at the time, the two qualified rebuilders were Ilmor (Detroit) and Honda Performance development. Eventually, Honda bought the design outright and developed it into the engine that drove GM and Toyota out of the IRL. Word is that Ilmor still did rebuilds in 2007, but I'm not totally certain on that.

Anyone else?

[nigelred5]

I think it was the origin of the 03 IRL Chevy engine I was missing in all that. The Chevy/Mercedes was definitely an Ilmor engine. Still quite a twisted mess if it does happen.

[bblocker68]

Do you guys know what goes on at the Cosworth builing in Torrance, CA? I live down the street, so it may be worthwhile to take a look.