Legge Versus Patrick

[pits4me]

Now that the dust has settled how about something CC fans have been waiting for. Lets get a vote going....

Kat showed her stuff at Milwaukee, she was fearless on The Mile. Will Walker run her? Better her than Milka.

[garyshell]

Now that the dust has settled how about something CC fans have been waiting for. Lets get a vote going....

Kat showed her stuff at Milwaukee, she was fearless on The Mile. Will Walker run her? Better her than Milka.


Uh, pits, where ya' been??? She signed to drive in the DTM series in a back marker car apparently. <sigh>

Gary

[Cart750hp]

Now that the dust has settled how about something CC fans have been waiting for. Lets get a vote going....

Kat showed her stuff at Milwaukee, she was fearless on The Mile. Will Walker run her? Better her than Milka.

Pleeeese. Although, let's say, she haven't signed with DTM, what would be her chance?

When she was in CC, she couldn't even be on the front of the grid! That's when NHR, Forsythe, RuSport, Walker and Minardi was owning the top 10. Now you put her in IndyCar on top of those 5 teams....add Penske, Ganassi, Rahal and AGR? What are you smoking? Who's gonna sign her? She sucked in CC, period. I know some of you are a huge die hard fan of her because she's not showing her stuff, but get real, she's not competitive. The best she could do is "fast" on the practice session when Sebastien, Will, Justin, Robert were not on the track. When it comes to the race day....she's on the 16 spot. Or what you guys been arguing with me before was that at least she used to bring her car home safely. She's good where she at now. She's not gonna win or cannot compete with Danica. Do you think NHLR, Ganassi, Penske, PKV, AGR, Rahal, Walker, Minardi, Conquest, Forsythe would sign her? No freakin A.

Good luck Katherine. Your fame in CC was 5 minutes and they are way up.

[Hoop-98]

Well prolly in equal cars I give Patrick an edge on ovals and Legge on the RC but fairly equal. In her last Milwaukee race Patrick was a lil quicker in the Dallara than Legge was in the Lola, and she finished on the lead lap, Legge was 2 down.

Neither would likely win without some terrific luck IMHO.

rh

[Cart750hp]

Well prolly in equal cars I give Patrick an edge on ovals and Legge on the RC but fairly equal. In her last Milwaukee race Patrick was a lil quicker in the Dallara than Legge was in the Lola, and she finished on the lead lap, Legge was 2 down.

Neither would likely win without some terrific luck IMHO.

rh

I couldn't agree more.

Katherine over Danica, Danica over Katherine? Pleeease. The field is just gonna get tougher from here on. I hate to be arguing with someone that at least one of them came home with the car over the other? Just drop it.

[garyshell]

I couldn't agree more.

Katherine over Danica, Danica over Katherine? Pleeease. The field is just gonna get tougher from here on. I hate to be arguing with someone that at least one of them came home with the car over the other? Just drop it.


Just drop it? Look in the mirror and say that. You are the one who began the speculation by asking what if she hadn't signed to DTM.


Although, let's say, she haven't signed with DTM, what would be her chance?


The hypothetical is all yours.

Gary

[Cart750hp]

Just drop it? Look in the mirror and say that. You are the one who began the speculation by asking what if she hadn't signed to DTM.

That wasn't an speculation. I was giving you an exampe of how Katherine would be competitive in IndyCar "IF" she hadn't signed with DTM and straight to IndyCar. What competition would she bringing? Her experience in CC? Hmm, not another 2 years of this.



The hypothetical is all yours.

Gary

Let me know if I hit a nerve on my post earlier.

[ShiftingGears]

I'd be much more looking forward to the best driver of IRL vs the best driver of CCWS.

[infoxicated]

I reckon Danica would have won at Milwaukee last year if it hadn't been for the collision with Wheldon. She was the class of the field later in the stint and managed to come from a lap down after that collision to finish 8th ahead of Sam Hornish. Brilliant drive from her - no wonder she was pissed at Dan.

I think Kat came up to Champ Car too soon, to be honest - too much too soon made her look bad. It's sad to see a female open wheel racer switch to tin tops - we'll maybe never know how good she could have gotten given time.

[Breeze]

Well maybe Nelson Phillipe will come along for the ride. He's still got long hair at least, right? I'd bet he's faster than Danica. :D

[beachbum]

You can't compare the two based on recent results. Legge was second fiddle with teams at the very bottom of the CCWS grid and Patrick has been on the best team in the IRL. You can't compare the results. Looking back at Atlantics, they had similar equipment and Legge was much more competitive.

But the speculation is moot. Legge is off to the DTM where she will actually get paid (what a concept) and Patrick is back at AGR, where some are speculating she better shine or Mutoh will take her ride next year.

[BoilerIMS]

Get this thread back to being civil or I will close it.

[garyshell]

Although, let's say, she haven't signed with DTM, what would be her chance?


That wasn't an speculation. I was giving you an exampe of how Katherine would be competitive in IndyCar "IF" she hadn't signed with DTM and straight to IndyCar.




American Heritage Dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4.html)
speculation n.

Contemplation or consideration of a subject; meditation.[/*:m:8wmjz8bd]
A conclusion, opinion, or theory reached by conjecture.[/*:m:8wmjz8bd]
Reasoning based on inconclusive evidence; conjecture or supposition.[/*:m:8wmjz8bd]
Engagement in risky business transactions on the chance of quick or considerable profit.[/*:m:8wmjz8bd]
A commercial or financial transaction involving speculation[/*:m:8wmjz8bd]


It is the textbook definition of speculation. See 2 and 3 above.

Gary

[pits4me]

I reckon Danica would have won at Milwaukee last year if it hadn't been for the collision with Wheldon. She was the class of the field later in the stint and managed to come from a lap down after that collision to finish 8th ahead of Sam Hornish. Brilliant drive from her - no wonder she was pissed at Dan.

Let's get real here. If Danica had weight ballast like CC rules, I doubt she'd have been "the class of the field."

[pits4me]

Uh, pits, where ya' been??? She signed to drive in the DTM series in a back marker car apparently. <sigh>

Gary

With so much up in the air, Kat made a good call. Tamara Vidali has been a good Audi shoe for years (it would have been nice to see her here in Atlantics in the mid 90's).

The DTM schedule is not very tight. Kat may have the possibility of a one-off at Indy under the right circumstances. The Audi driver stable is pretty deep in 2008.

[IMSA_Dude]

With so much up in the air, Kat made a good call. Tamara Vidali has been a good Audi shoe for years (it would have been nice to see her here in Atlantics in the mid 90's)Since we're talking about tintop shoes, let's get Maria de Villota in there, too... ;)

[nigelred5]

I couldn't figure out what it was about the pictures of DP in SI that didn't look right. She has blue eyes in the pictures. Aren't her eyes brown?? aaah, those sneaky blue contacts. She's not my cup o tea but I have to admit I dig that blue eyes black hair look.

Oh that's right, we were talking about racing. ;) I like Kat and all, but I have to say DP has shown consistently better in the big cars. granted KAt had crap for suopport but I don't think it's just the weight advantage.

[Mad_Hatter]

Well maybe Nelson Phillipe will come along for the ride. He's still got long hair at least, right? I'd bet he's faster than Danica. :D

I think I saw him with the rest of the drivers before the press conference began.

[Ruben Barrios]

Hmmm... reminds me of Lyn StJames and Srach Fisher in the Indy500... didn't they crash each other out?

http://espn.go.com/auto/indy00/s/indywomen.html

Neither Danica nor Katherine are anything above average... weren't they women nobody would even remeber their names...

[Hoop-98]

Let's get real here. If Danica had weight ballast like CC rules, I doubt she'd have been "the class of the field."

In race simulation software we are talking .2 MPH at Milwaukee for 50 pounds.


She wasn't the class of the field either, but she was a "contenda".

Road courses would have been a much bigger thing.

For the last 10 years or so they pretty much know what weight vs power vs downforce do.

The high downforce DP01 never ran Milwaukee.

BTW, her (DP) shortness unmasks the air intake and could be worth a few HP, will we do height adjustment, or KL has a bigger butt, so a lower CG than a male of same weight, should we have a "booty comp"?


rh

[garyshell]

In race simulation software we are talking .2 MPH at Milwaukee for 50 pounds.


She wasn't the class of the field either, but she was a "contenda".

Road courses would have been a much bigger thing.

For the last 10 years or so they pretty much know what weight vs power vs downforce do.

The high downforce DP01 never ran Milwaukee.

BTW, her (DP) shortness unmasks the air intake and could be worth a few HP, will we do height adjustment, or KL has a bigger butt, so a lower CG than a male of same weight, should we have a "booty comp"?


rh

I was waiting, and hoping, for this post. Thanks Hoop, we can always count on you to crunch the numbers and put these sorts of arguments into some REAL perspective.

Gary

[Cart750hp]

I was waiting, and hoping, for this post. Thanks Hoop, we can always count on you to crunch the numbers and put these sorts of arguments into some REAL perspective.

Gary

I agree. Hoop just made it easier for my argument that KL is more likely no match for DP. KL's weight is a huge disadvantage against DP, that's one. Two, DP is in a better team than KL, if she ended in IRL. She's older than DP. DP got more experience in ovals than KL. Still not convinced? Or argue with me about more speculation that I do? Please argue with me that KL in your view is more likely will beat DP in any given race.

[garyshell]

I agree. Hoop just made it easier for my argument that KL is more likely no match for DP. KL's weight is a huge disadvantage against DP, that's one. Two, DP is in a better team than KL, if she ended in IRL. She's older than DP. DP got more experience in ovals than KL. Still not convinced? Or argue with me about more speculation that I do? Please argue with me that KL in your view is more likely will beat DP in any given race.


He did??? He stated that 50 lbs = .2 mph. That is a decimal point there. It is two TENTHS of a mile per hour. You call that a HUGE difference?

But again none of this matters, does it? KL will not be in the IRL this year. So, yes this is all a matter of speculation again, isn't it?

Gary

[Cart750hp]

He did??? He stated that 50 lbs = .2 mph. That is a decimal point there. It is two TENTHS of a mile per hour. You call that a HUGE difference?

And you don't? That .2 mph out of say, at least 80 laps and you'll see where KL would end up, like always.


But again none of this matters, does it? KL will not be in the IRL this year. So, yes this is all a matter of speculation again, isn't it?

Gary

Not that it doesn't matter she's not going to be in IRL this year but this thread is about KL versus DP and not about speculation. Speculation or what you call it, it's what's making the point about the thread topic. You've been pushing your "speculation" argument with me yet you haven't made one point about DP versus KL thread. Start an "speculation" thread and see who'll join you there. Other than that, I'm still waiting on your bright ideas or opinions about KL and DP. So what is it gonna be?

[Roninho]

You can't compare the two based on recent results. Legge was second fiddle with teams at the very bottom of the CCWS grid and Patrick has been on the best team in the IRL. You can't compare the results. Looking back at Atlantics, they had similar equipment and Legge was much more competitive.

But the speculation is moot. Legge is off to the DTM where she will actually get paid (what a concept) and Patrick is back at AGR, where some are speculating she better shine or Mutoh will take her ride next year.
Her ride with coyne was definitely not a good one, but her pkv ride wasn't that bad, or was it?
I'm not sure if comparing the Atlantics-period is fair as well. They drove against different competition, and and (relative) succes in atlantics doesn't mean succes in indycar.

All i can say is that the only reason both are/were in indycars is because they had good sponsorship-potential. Everybody knew that a reasonably competitive female would have commercial value. Danica has lived up to this and Motorola is paying big money to have her run a motorola car and as long as she runs decently she will have a sponsor and be in indycar. Legge on the other hand was totally invisible (apart from the big shunt) running as a backmarker and no way she would land a sponsor with these performances.

Would i like to see Legge in indycar? Imo Danica vs Legge (vs Fisher on the ovals!) would be an interesteing extra storyline for indycar. So yes, sure but only if she brings a sponsor with her, the free rides should go to the more talented drivers.

[Lousada]

Let's get real here. If Danica had weight ballast like CC rules, I doubt she'd have been "the class of the field."

Haven't they balanced the weight this year to include the driver? So Danicas advantage is gone? I'm pretty sure of it?

[gerkebi]

I love this argument. At the end of Kat's Atlantic season, I did a little research and DP's track times were without fail faster on each of the tracks they both ran on. I got blasted in this forum when I posted that observation at the time, because of the variability of track conditions for two different days.

I would agree if I just looked at one track. But it was every track, every race, every time. DP had faster times at the same tracks and the only difference was a minor adjustment of shock absorber settings for Kat's season.

It's all speculation, but this is an interesting piece of the puzzle IMO.

[infoxicated]

Let's get real here. If Danica had weight ballast like CC rules, I doubt she'd have been "the class of the field."
Totally. I can see how she struggled at Homestead now that the weight parity rules are in place. Clearly she is not a talented driver - you were right to doubt her all along.

ROFL!

[Hoop-98]

On any superspeedway that has a minimum wing angle her advantage was/is negligible. At indy she (well her car) is generating about 140 pounds less lateral force than say AJ 4. This requires about 100 pounds less downforce to have the same grip.

That is only valid at Indy because they trim the car, but Milwaukee is weight sensitive too.

rh

I think the relationship of the Helmet to the air scoop could be another issue worth a handful of BHP at speed.

[weeflyonthewall]

I love this argument. At the end of Kat's Atlantic season, I did a little research and DP's track times were without fail faster on each of the tracks they both ran on. I got blasted in this forum when I posted that observation at the time, because of the variability of track conditions for two different days.

I would agree if I just looked at one track. But it was every track, every race, every time. DP had faster times at the same tracks and the only difference was a minor adjustment of shock absorber settings for Kat's season.

It's all speculation, but this is an interesting piece of the puzzle IMO.

Didn't your research show most drivers lap times increased from 2003 to 2005? Didn't someone offer an explanation a while back as to why the Swifts were slower in 2005 versus 2003? On paper they ran the same 4A-GE engine except they really were not delivering the same powerband. The series mandated the Hasselgren engine parity program starting in 2005. Along with compression ratio of 12.7 and a hard rev limiter set to 9600 RPM. Also the TRD/Pectel EMS. Did DP run the updated Swift 008a or the new 014.a like KL? Its easy to speculate DP vs KL but in reality it all boils down to the race results one achieves. KL has the trophies, DP doesn't! http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/2005-08-23-legge_x.htm#chart

[pits4me]

Looks like weefly called you on this already gerkebi.
FWIW compare season best lap times. They are normally a good indicator.
Long Beach times were typically 2.05 seconds slower in 2005.
Cleveland Macri (Polestar) 1:05.95 in 2003
Cleveland Bessette (Polestar) 1:08.048 in 2005
Cleveland Wirth 1:04.255 in 2006 (Cosworth Engines)
Cleveland Hinchcliffe 1:06.127 in 2007 (Cooper Tires)
That's ignoring track conditions.

[weeflyonthewall]

So what are the chances of KK running Kat at Indy?

[beachgirl]

About zip, IMHO.

[vintage]

Are we going to argue forever about KL? The bottom line is she was unimpressive in Champ Car, and we'll see how she does in DTM. I see people already getting ready for the battle by saying she has a bad ride.

Put a fork in it.