How bad does it hurt??

[nigelred5]

...Every time you have to click on that "INDYCAR" tab to enter this forum??

It's gonna take some adjusting to, that's for sure ;)

[Andrewmcm]

Not at all. I'm glad it's over.

[bblocker68]

It definitely feels weird. I'm just glad I can call it IndyCar again.

[nigelred5]

It definitely feels weird. I'm just glad I can call it IndyCar again.

Agreed on both, It just feels really REALLY weird.

[JasonD]

I didnt even realized I did it, I just knew where on the page the link is and just clicked on it this morning. I suppose that could get me into trouble one of these days.

[ChaimWitz]

NigelRed5, 1996 wasn't all that long ago and then CART known as IndyCar. To me it is all the same sport and culture and I have a great sense of peace that we are all together again. To me, the past four years have been as pointless and wasteful as the IRL was in its first four years! It is truly time to move on and build this sport again. Outside of those who sought revenge for the original split, the majority of people I know in the business see the end of hostilities as the best news in a dozen years. Today is the first day of the new age of IndyCar racing. My hope is that it will live up to its full potential. To me, that starts with the fans having a real voice as to where the sport goes next.

[TU Homer]

I know everyone on this board wants to join hands and act like we're one big family. But I can't get away from the fact that Tony George was the primary contributor for damaging open-wheel racing, only to replace the remnants with exactly what he hated. I'm struggling with that, I gotta be honest. Now Tony is talking about a balanced schedule? Who is he kidding?!?!? I am still outraged that he has become exactly what he hated.

Then to see IRL apologists act like IRL had the right formula, when in the end, IRL had IMS. Course, CART/Champs had "leadership" issues...

Personally, I embrace the notion of a unification or merge or a combination. IT needs to happen. It has happened. And I am not delusional enough to think Champs could have continued as they were.

I saw at another forum, an IRL apologist ask "why" when folks expressed a desire to see indycar continue roads/streets. He asked why, when there are two sportscar series. Sheesh. I guess I'm not the only one who is struggling with issues. To continue to mock and degrade the champ forumla which has been dominant for going on 40 years is rediculous.

Anyway, those types are making it mighty tough to join hands with the Jan Shaeffer's (ain't calling anyone on this board Jan...) Brian Keske's, Jim Wilke's, Scott Gates', and others that seemed hell-bent on destroying CART, as opposed to promoting or discussing their own series of choice.


-TU

[ChaimWitz]

Well, I can assure you that I am anything but an IRL apologist. I spent a good part of my life and my own money trying to build CART before and after the split. I even made a significant and lasting positive contribution to OWRS but as we all can see ChampCar stood on a foundation of quicksand and the IRL stands today because it was built (very badly at first) on the bedrock of the Indianapolis 500. Such is life. Now I am now happy to see even more road racing being included in the future but I am not someone who thinks oval racing is a bad thing. Diversity of venues and challenges is what I want to see along with a new car that is a truer test of driver ability. Both the IRL and CC cars have too much downforce for my tastes. The appearance of the cars is subjective, so forgive me if and I am not really a fan of either. Something new and fresh is what I want to see. So back to the point of the thread... It only hurts when I laugh at how much time, money, prestige and human capital has been wasted these past dozen years. Time to go forward and leave the past where it belongs. In the past.

[TU Homer]

Good note, Chaimwitz. It doesn't sound like we're that far apart.

FYI, when I say formula, I'm referring to the turbo 2.65l engines primarily coupled with the low-slung look of the champs.

I'm very open to inovation too, but turbo 2.65l engines has been a defining component to indycar racing until Tony's idea hit. I would like to see a return to that. Alternate fuels? Sure, that would be great.

I do like some of the inovative things CCWS and Cotman introduced, such as push to pass (not a new invention btw) redwall optional tires, paddle shifters and other items. These are good developments. I suspect IRL has a few introductions over the past few years which are great.


-TU

[champcarray]

It is definitely weird to click on that link. I grew up calling the cars champ cars, had to get used to calling them indy cars, was thrilled when they went back to being champ cars, and now have to go back to indy cars again!

[SoCalPVguy]

Actually it's relief. For example trying to explain to the wife why I was going to Toronto for the Molson Indy... "Is that the cars I see on TV at the Indy 500" ... Well not exactly, "OK dear will Dainca Patrick be driving ?" Not exactly; "Is that like the poster of the red race car I saw at Target ?" Not exactly. Honey the ticket says "Molson Indy"... I know I know.... "Well what is it then ?"... It's like the cars you see on TV at Indy but a different kind, with different drivers, that used to be at Indy until they split up.... OK dear you caught me I have a girlfriend in Toronto...."

[Miatanut]

It hurt. :down:

Sad thing is I won't be watching, so I will gradually get left behind, except for the technical discussions, which I will enjoy regardless of who runs the series.

I will continue to hope for a better future. I'm sure having a single series will improve sponsorship opportunities all by itself.

If they should have a series with permanent road courses, one or two good temporary courses, turbos, multiple chassis, multiple tires, multiple engines, and no rear wings, that could be enough to make me watch anyway. :)

[FIAT1]

Champcar was and is INDYCAR and there is no problem for me there .It's irl that hurts. Irl is reminder of everything that was wrong from they one.

[SoCalPVguy]

For all you so-called race fans that are letting your silly petty emotions get in the way of watching some good racing (Hey !!! "it's all about the racing, and racing is good" or so I've been told) I offer you the some advice....

http://transfers.mep-llc.com/files/1suck.jpg


Kwityerbitchin about TG, crapwagons, NA engine noise, whatever - you all sound like a bunch of snobby crybabies. Miatanut ! why won't you watch anymore ? Your TV broken ? Not to call you out alone, the same goes for you other "quitters". You have no right to demand anything of a series other than good racing and if you think that anybody outside the 50 or so posters on this board would even know what you are talking about when you demand "turbos, multiple chassis, multiple tires, multiple engines, and no rear wings (yeah right like THAT"S gonna happen) == you have been indoors on this board too often and you need to get out more to the real world.

Here's a question for you stick and ball fans, do you quit watching your favorite team beacuse they traded a player away or obtained a player fromanother team you didn't like ?

here's the botton line, if all race fans were snobby techno's; do you think anybody's watch NAscab ?

[Chaparral66]

Come again?

[V12]

"Snobby technos"?!?

Right, I'm as glad as the next guy the two series have FINALLY got together - I will watch the 2008 and 2009 seasons with great enjoyment even though they are going going to be all Dallara-Hondas - I realise anything else would be impractical.

But what makes motorsport - of any description - stand out over any other form of sport for me is that it is the combination of man and machine working together, and from that viewpoint single-spec series make about as much sense to me as having a bunch of genetically cloned identical drivers out there.

Of course this isn't some Champ Car vs. IRL issue - in 2007 both series had identical equipment (apart from a few token Panoz G-Forces in the Indy 500), and both have been multi-make in the not too distant past, but at the end of the day if the unified series can get a bit more interest and momentum by 2010, it represents a golden opportunity to open up the formula on both the engine side - with the whole energy efficiency/alternative power angle - and the chassis side by getting Panoz and Lola back involved, hell I'd welcome Penske building their own car IF they chose to (conflict of interest my arse). In an ideal world i'd say tyres too but I can just about live without that.

And no - I couldn't give a flying toss about NASCAR, even if I now potentially have two drivers (Dario and JPM) to root for. If that makes me a snob then I'll take that as a compliment.

Apologies for going OT a bit, but at the end of the day if I wanted to watch a top-line spec series I'd watch GP2. Which still blows compared to F2 and pre-1996 F3000.

Here's to a cracking 2008 Indy Car season :beer:

[Cart750hp]

Not at all. I'm glad it's over.

Exactly. I feel fresh and better. The split is OVER. Now we can talk about competition in teams and drivers.

[SFChamp]

man I hate Crap Wagons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :(

[e2mtt]

The past 12 years are what really hurt.

Having them back together is good, what is sad is we have such a sad shell of former greatness.

All I really hope for is a good show, a enjoyable sport, a race series that I can actually follow and enjoy again. Please don't dissappoint me.

[garyshell]

man I hate Crap Wagons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :(


And we are supposed to care??? If you hate 'em so much and can't move on, why are you here?

Gary

[PSfan]

For all you so-called race fans that are letting your silly petty emotions get in the way of watching some good racing (Hey !!! "it's all about the racing, and racing is good" or so I've been told) I offer you the some advice....

http://transfers.mep-llc.com/files/1suck.jpg


Kwityerbitchin about TG, crapwagons, NA engine noise, whatever - you all sound like a bunch of snobby crybabies. Miatanut ! why won't you watch anymore ? Your TV broken ? Not to call you out alone, the same goes for you other "quitters". You have no right to demand anything of a series other than good racing and if you think that anybody outside the 50 or so posters on this board would even know what you are talking about when you demand "turbos, multiple chassis, multiple tires, multiple engines, and no rear wings (yeah right like THAT"S gonna happen) == you have been indoors on this board too often and you need to get out more to the real world.

Where to begin... for the record, not everyone has chosen not to watch IRL's brand racing because of TG. Want to know what I am watching during the Indy 500? ussually Speedtvs re-broadcast of the Monaco GP!!! The most boring, dull race on the F1 schedule, a race I had watched the live broadcast less then 5 hours previously. I tend to check up on the Indy during commercial breaks but apperantly my IRL induced pain threshold is about 3 mins!!!

Over the years I've tried to watch IRL racing, first to catch Goodyear, then Patrick, road races, Cart/champcar drivers at Indy and I can honestly say I don't believe I've managed to stay tuned into the same channel for more then 10 mins at a time (Times when I have fallen asleep during attempts to watch are not included in that.)

If things go as planned, and we won't see a new IRL car until 2010 why would I want to even try to watch during the next 2 years? And what would make me believe that the new car will be any different as far as creating a "racing" product as every other IRL car up to this point? I personaly think the best way to go is to switch to the DP01/09 for 09, and delay a "new car until 2012 when they will have a better idea of the where the sport stands, also be nice if Dallara and Lola are able to have chasis built to the same specs as the DP01/09 to also compete, but heck... who really cares about "good racing"



Here's a question for you stick and ball fans, do you quit watching your favorite team beacuse they traded a player away or obtained a player fromanother team you didn't like ?

Actually, this would be more like, would you still follow your favorite team if they chose to relocate to another city. I would not be suprised in the least bit if there was a drastic drop in attendace should, lets say the Buffalo Bills announced they where moving permanently to Toronto in 2 years.

And actually, if my fav. hockey team announced they had aquired Todd Bertuzzi, I would pack away all of that teams "hockey memorabilia" I own (over 20 pieces just on my tv stand alone) would be packed away, and I would then become a Sens fan...

Thanks for asking :p :

[Miatanut]

For all you so-called race fans that are letting your silly petty emotions get in the way of watching some good racing (Hey !!! "it's all about the racing, and racing is good" or so I've been told) I offer you the some advice....

http://transfers.mep-llc.com/files/1suck.jpg


Kwityerbitchin about TG, crapwagons, NA engine noise, whatever - you all sound like a bunch of snobby crybabies. Miatanut ! why won't you watch anymore ? Your TV broken ? Not to call you out alone, the same goes for you other "quitters". You have no right to demand anything of a series other than good racing and if you think that anybody outside the 50 or so posters on this board would even know what you are talking about when you demand "turbos, multiple chassis, multiple tires, multiple engines, and no rear wings (yeah right like THAT"S gonna happen) == you have been indoors on this board too often and you need to get out more to the real world.

Here's a question for you stick and ball fans, do you quit watching your favorite team beacuse they traded a player away or obtained a player fromanother team you didn't like ?

here's the botton line, if all race fans were snobby techno's; do you think anybody's watch NAscab ?

For me, the best racing the last few years has been club racing, including Miata Cup. ALMS is gradually improving. The two or three guys going at it hammer and tong at the front of most vintage races are fun to watch. I have been out. Including getting soaked to the bone during qualifying and Atlantic race I at Portland last June.

As a genuine gearhead, if there's a good race going on, I'll be there. If it's ugly looking, ugly sounding, de facto spec. cars with a grip to power ratio that's all out of whack, and worse yet, run by somebody from the ghoulish Hulman/George clan, thanks but no thanks.

Plenty of good club racing around to scratch my itch!

If they want the folks like me who pay good money to sit in the bleachers, even if it's raining, then they will have to earn my business back. The capitalist system at its best.

Now that's "something with more of an American flavor!" :D

[ezhop7]

If you like ALMS so much stop posting in the Indycar section...I'm sure the ALMS guys will take you with open arms. It is way it is. If the Democrats win the presidential election do you think they will kept the Republicans staffers on the presidential staff...NOT...It the same way in business. Remember IRL , NASCAR, NFL, NHL, NBA and MLB are all businesses at the end of the day! Bottomline get rid of competitors or absorb them. In this case Tony paid for CHamp Car. I'm quite sure KK,Forsythe and Newman-Haas are getting paid a good amount. It's the small teams that may fall by the waste side. Hmmms its just like CART...small guy struggles and the big teams get richer. I just hope that Conquest and Panther Racing survive.

[Miatanut]

If you like ALMS so much stop posting in the Indycar section...I'm sure the ALMS guys will take you with open arms. It is way it is. If the Democrats win the presidential election do you think they will kept the Republicans staffers on the presidential staff...NOT...It the same way in business. Remember IRL , NASCAR, NFL, NHL, NBA and MLB are all businesses at the end of the day! Bottomline get rid of competitors or absorb them. In this case Tony paid for CHamp Car. I'm quite sure KK,Forsythe and Newman-Haas are getting paid a good amount. It's the small teams that may fall by the waste side. Hmmms its just like CART...small guy struggles and the big teams get richer. I just hope that Conquest and Panther Racing survive.

If you go back a post or two, you will see that I observed that since the forums have been merged as of TODAY, I expect there will be less and less for me to participate in here. Probably more and more in ALMS. The CCWS forum was a fun place to hang out. This won't be. Que sera, sera.

[nigelred5]

I understand why some people are saying they are going to switch to the ALMS, but weren't you watching that all along? I have been. Apples and oranges and grapefruit. Just like indycars, sprintcars and stockcars. Just because they drive on the same or similar tracks doesn't mean the racing is any where near the same, even on the same track. Multi-class sports car racing is no more like Openwheel Champcar road racing than sprint cars are like the 500. I watch grand am AND ALMS. To be honest, IMO, the Grand Am was generally far better racing to watch than the ALMS has been, watching the Audis pass gt cars all day. Last year was better when they were on real tracks with some real competition for a change from the Acuras and Porsches, but ALMS cars just don't belong on a track like Houston.