Who to be the big boss

[seppefan]

I know who it must not be - TG, KK etc but we need a new strong visionary leader to do a Bernie and make the new unified open wheel series work. Ovalc, street and road. 20 races with Mexico, Australia and maybe a Europena race or two. It should be the best and I am really looking forward to 09. A young Mario, not Michael for sure. Cotman,..ideas ?

[Mark]

Well it's going to be Tony George? Who else would it be?

I know you don't want that but isn't it the reality?

[Rudy Tamasz]

Mark is right. Let's live in the real world. A new Bernie, Bill France or even Don Panoz will not emerge overnight. We gotta live with what we have.

[nigelred5]

Let him be the owner fine, but let someone like Barnhart or Cotman call the shots. I've been so accustomed to changing the channel or ignoring him I had almost forgotten how painful it can be to actually listen to him, though I will say, public speaking skills aside, I don't believe him any more or less than I came to believe anything that came out of KK's mouth. TG needs to stay out of it as much a possible though. Wishful thinking.

[seppefan]

I agree. I hope that Cotman etc run the strategic thinking with TG having the right of veto as he is the owner. Now the war is over things will improve if the strategy is sound.

[bblocker68]

I'm glad Cotman and Barnhardt are gonna be running things and not Steve Johnson.

[nigelred5]

Lousy song aside, as least we can say the series has a marketing plan. So what if we have a grid girl that drives ;)

[gofastandwynn]

Let him be the owner fine, but let someone like Barnhart or Cotman call the shots. I've been so accustomed to changing the channel or ignoring him I had almost forgotten how painful it can be to actually listen to him, though I will say, public speaking skills aside, I don't believe him any more or less than I came to believe anything that came out of KK's mouth. TG needs to stay out of it as much a possible though. Wishful thinking.

Right now the stucture is Terry Angstadt runs the business side of things, and Brian Barnhart runs the competition. TG for the most part has very little to do with the day to day running of the series since he created Vision Racing. He promoted BB to run things to try to avoid and conflicts on interest.

[TU Homer]

I don't trust Barnhart. I think he brought Cotman over because Tony Cotman is someone who not only can be trusted by all parties, but IS trusted. Cotman works for and reports to Barnhart, so that is a little scary. But Tony will stand up to Barnhart like he did against Forsythe and Genti. I suspect Barnhart will be more of an executive, and Cotman will be the drivers advocate.


-TU

[IMSA_Dude]

Let's live in the real world. A new Bernie, Bill France or even Don Panoz will not emerge overnight. We gotta live with what we have.Let's use what we have, while he still lives... I'd vote for making a really generous offer to Wally Dallenbach, Sr. and set it up so he can override Tony!

[IMSA_Dude]

So what if we have a grid girl that drives ;) The ALMS would like to have her and her Milka money back.

She won a championship (P675) with the help of a really good teammate and no competition...

[Breeze]

The ALMS would like to have her and her Milka money back.

She won a championship (P675) with the help of a really good teammate and no competition...

Pretty sure he's talking (writing) about Danica. Though I'd rather see Milka in spandex. :facelick:

[Cart750hp]

Well it's going to be Tony George? Who else would it be?

I know you don't want that but isn't it the reality?

Yep, I totally agree.

This is what TG been waited and spent for for many years. He won, he got. Big boss, no question it'll be TG. His boys will be a lot, such as Barnhardt and Cotman, maybe even Penske and Kalkhoven. There'll be bunch of these as the series goes along. I believe that if there's a dispute along the way, there won't be a split. More likely the team will leave to NASCAR or Stock Cars. Too much money for another AOWR if that happens.

[IMSA_Dude]

Pretty sure he's talking (writing) about Danica. Though I'd rather see Milka in spandex. :facelick: Danica would need cosmetic surgery to be a grid girl... Milka's already had hers.

[indycool]

TU, the IRL paddock respects Barnhart and the CC paddock respects Cotman, so there isn't any reason that the two shouldn't get along with each other and the teams. They aren't exactly unknown to teams from EITHER side, along with that. I don't see any CC teams carrying paper's banner to the party.

[ezhop7]

The one who has the crown and the gold rules...I guess Tony paid the Champ Teams enough gold so he gets to rule!!!!

[TU Homer]

TU, the IRL paddock respects Barnhart and the CC paddock respects Cotman, so there isn't any reason that the two shouldn't get along with each other and the teams. They aren't exactly unknown to teams from EITHER side, along with that. I don't see any CC teams carrying paper's banner to the party.


Cotman, as I understand, is universally respected while Barnhart is not. You won't get Mike A. to say "it", but you will hear Dario say it, since he's no longer part of that group. Dario did say on-air that Barnhart exactly made the wrong call in 2002, and that was a big blunder.

Who's banner? Is he a paid poster or something?


-TU

[TU Homer]

The one who has the crown and the gold rules...I guess Tony paid the Champ Teams enough gold so he gets to rule!!!!

You are correct. Not a judgement, but is the facts. With Tony's promise of a balanced schedule and an attempt to bring the traditional CART events into the fold, makes a guy wonder if it was worth it. Here we go protecting the American tradition of oval racing, providing a path to the dirt-tracker/American racer, and preserving the integrity of the Indy 500. Wonder why a sanction of the race and series was critical to the maintenance of the integrity of the Indy 500....

Listen, I'll get over it. But I'm seriously pissed. People like Jan Shaeffer, Jim Wilke, Scott Gates, John Howard, and many others can talk all they want, but in the end, Tony's experiment since his decision in 1994 has threatened the Indy 500 and open-wheel racing more than any single decision in a long, long time. Now I have to get behind him?

As I mentioned before, the first champcar event I attend again will be at Road America. Maybe by then I can start to progress...and yes, they are still champcars. Been for many decades.


-TU

[Roninho]

Listen, I'll get over it. But I'm seriously pissed. People like Jan Shaeffer, Jim Wilke, Scott Gates, John Howard, and many others can talk all they want, but in the end, Tony's experiment since his decision in 1994 has threatened the Indy 500 and open-wheel racing more than any single decision in a long, long time. Now I have to get behind him?
-TU

TU,

This post isn't directed at you specifically, but more in general to the anti-tg brigade.

Why should you have to "get behind him"? Either you like the series and it's racing and want to follow it, or you don't.

Yep, Tony is one of the major factors of the split. So? Yes, the split sucked, and cost a-ow a lot, and would i have loved to see things go differently? Yes. But i can't blame the guy for trying to do what he thought was in his best interest. Just like i don't blame the amigo's for contuining Cart/Champcar after the bankruptcy even though i did not prefer this.

For me it's quite simple: Don't like the serie, don't watch it. I did the same with F1, i'm not going to spend my time on blaming Bernie or Max that most races have been boring parades. After a while i realized that it wouldn't improve and that it did not fullfill my needs anymore, so i just quit following f1.

And i must add that imo if a year ago you'd duplicate the IRL, run dp01's in it, called it champcar and put the Amigo's in charge there'd be a lot of fanatics calling it the best thing since sliced bread......

[indycool]

Well, I'm happy to hear that you found something six years ago that one guy thinks Barnhart did wrong.

[TU Homer]

Well, I'm happy to hear that you found something six years ago that one guy thinks Barnhart did wrong.


One guy? I don't think so. The whole of AGR/Team Kool Green would agree with Dario. Many others too. Bottom line, he made a decision without understanding all the information that was very affecting and alienating at the largest attended race in the world with hundreds of thousands of dollars at stake. Funny you trivialize that.

What has Cotman done to alienate the racers to that degree? Like I said, Barnhart has a history of making bad decisions.


-TU

[indycool]

Well, name another one that YOU THINK is a mistake.

[garyshell]

...but in the end, Tony's experiment since his decision in 1994 has threatened the Indy 500 and open-wheel racing more than any single decision in a long, long time. Now I have to get behind him?


Not "get behind him", but "get past it". There is a huge difference. See my initial message in the "What do I hate?" thread for the specifics.

Gary

[TU Homer]

Not "get behind him", but "get past it". There is a huge difference. See my initial message in the "What do I hate?" thread for the specifics.

Gary

Not sure they are different. But we'll see.

To your point in that thread, the positive is I will find it easier to truly "hate" a team/driver and support another team/driver. Haven't really had that in a while. Both series were far too tender to be hating on the teams.... maybe cept Paulie G.

[TU Homer]

Well, name another one that YOU THINK is a mistake.

Why should I? He blew the ending on the biggest race. I don't follow IRL, so I can't come up with week in and week out events. I did follow the CCWS, and Cotman came up with creative solutions at virtually every track that the drivers first approved of, and had an equalizing affect on the owners.

At the end of the day, Cotman will be making the calls, with BB looking over his shoulder. Doesn't matter what I think, that is the facts.


-TU

[indycool]

Then if you didn't follow the IRL, how do you draw the conclusion that Barnhart is disrespected in the paddock?

[TU Homer]

I'm not in a vacuum. I don't rush to the IP everyday to look up the latest rumors about IRL, but I am aware of it's existance and most of it major players.

Specifically, because I heard Dario describe it on TV.


-TU

[indycool]

So, Dario can speak for Dario. Tracy unloaded after the '02 "500", but A) He hasn't been in the IRL paddock, and B) After six years, we don't know his current thinkin' on Barnhart. He hasn't called him a "circus clown" lately or any other officials that I've heard about.

[Cart750hp]

Maybe someone can tell me.....what the h3ll Dick Eidswick is doing in IndyCar? I thought this guy was sent to Antartica.....Ah, I see...Antartica means...IndyCar office.

TG, I'm begging you, do not let any CC management/ownership stick their hands in the cookie jar. Oh no, not these guys. CC is gone yet, KK's interview is still BS coming from his mouth.

[seppefan]

Having watched TG for the first time yesterday I realise why people run scared of his utterances. What a show ! Mr Big and he ums and arrs and...not impressive. I wish OW well as I love it but we need a strong management team who can manage this guy. Needs to be brought out to wave and smile but little else. Oh and get richer on the back of the fans which I am fine with if it works.

All I am looking for is a good competitive series with oval, road & race courses over 20 races and I hope about 10 in the USA and 10 outside. It could be so so popular and would stop some good drivers going to NASCAR for the cash, as is happening now. As Rahal said yesterday " The drivers that are truly the best are going to stick around now and the ones that aren't so good are going to have to work harder to keep their jobs "

[Roninho]

Having watched TG for the first time yesterday I realise why people run scared of his utterances. What a show ! Mr Big and he ums and arrs and...not impressive. I wish OW well as I love it but we need a strong management team who can manage this guy. Needs to be brought out to wave and smile but little else. Oh and get richer on the back of the fans which I am fine with if it works. We've had Pook, Rahal, KK, Forsythe, Heizler, etc. etc. etc.. They all were seen as the succesfull businessmen and many comments were made about TG being the inferiour one. In the end all failed to make champcar/cart work.

All i can say is: The split has ended, there is one serie and TG isn't going to leave no matter how bad you want it. So either deal with it and enjoy the racing or don't watch it. To suggest that someone else should run the show is not realistic, they might have a day to day operational team but as long as the family owns ims they will call the big shots.



All I am looking for is a good competitive series with oval, road & race courses over 20 races and I hope about 10 in the USA and 10 outside. With Long Beach, Surfers Paradise, Edmonton, St. Pete, Watkins Glenn, Mid-Ohio, Sears Point, Belle Isle, a bunch of ovals and +-25 cars i think we can say we actually have that (apart from the 10 'foreign' races).

[seppefan]

[quote=Roninho;4The split has ended, there is one serie and TG isn't going to leave no matter how bad you want it. So either deal with it and enjoy the racing or don't watch it. To suggest that someone else should run the show is not realistic, they might have a day to day operational team but as long as the family owns ims they will call the big shots.Unquote

Before you reply read what I wrote. I never suggested he should leave. I suggested he should get other top run the show which it seems he is. Many majority shareholders do that so dont tell me to lump it or leave. Subject closed. I am not looking for an argument just an observation.

[TU Homer]

We've had Pook, Rahal, KK, Forsythe, Heizler, etc. etc. etc.. They all were seen as the succesfull businessmen and many comments were made about TG being the inferiour one. In the end all failed to make champcar/cart work.

All i can say is: The split has ended, there is one serie and TG isn't going to leave no matter how bad you want it. So either deal with it and enjoy the racing or don't watch it. To suggest that someone else should run the show is not realistic, they might have a day to day operational team but as long as the family owns ims they will call the big shots.

That is not the only two options. Baseball fans bitch and moan about Selig. NHL fans bitched and moaned about Gary whathisname. It's part of what could help IRL.

As for why Tony "succeeded", it's pretty much summed up in the three initials, "IMS". No other reason. His vision has proven to be myopic. His business plan an utter failure. He's still keeping his league operational through direct funding to teams and ride-buyers. He's chased out all manufactorers except Honda, and now Honda (a foreign company) is the group that had to approve the whole mergification. He is forced to run a Japan race in place of one of the traditional races in the US (few open-wheel races have run consecutively as long). Tony has leased engines, foreign drivers, no clear path to the local dirt tracker, losing oval-centricity in favor or a balanced schedule. His league has failed in all manners except for the fact he has IMS. And he was born with that.

Complaining about the leadership is part of the territory and is NOT a litmus test for support.


-TU

[Roninho]

Before you reply read what I wrote. I never suggested he should leave. I suggested he should get other top run the show which it seems he is. Many majority shareholders do that so dont tell me to lump it or leave. Subject closed. I am not looking for an argument just an observation.

No, you said that 'we need a strong management team who can manage this guy'. Nothing about a management team that runs the serie (which there actually already is), ands supports TG in running his serie, no you want a management team which 'manage this guy'.

It's the same old song: George needs to shut up and give the keys to IMS to someone else. That just isn't going to happen. The party that owns IMS and the IRL will call the big shots, no matter what the management teams says and wants, when the shareholders want to go left the series goes left.

[TU Homer]

Maybe someone can tell me.....what the h3ll Dick Eidswick is doing in IndyCar? I thought this guy was sent to Antartica.....Ah, I see...Antartica means...IndyCar office.

TG, I'm begging you, do not let any CC management/ownership stick their hands in the cookie jar. Oh no, not these guys. CC is gone yet, KK's interview is still BS coming from his mouth.


Eidswick was not the problem. Johnson was another thing...

[Roninho]

That is not the only two options. Baseball fans bitch and moan about Selig. NHL fans bitched and moaned about Gary whathisname. It's part of what could help IRL.

As for why Tony "succeeded", it's pretty much summed up in the three initials, "IMS". No other reason. His vision has proven to be myopic. His business plan an utter failure. He's still keeping his league operational through direct funding to teams and ride-buyers. He's chased out all manufactorers except Honda, and now Honda (a foreign company) is the group that had to approve the whole mergification. He is forced to run a Japan race in place of one of the traditional races in the US (few open-wheel races have run consecutively as long). Tony has leased engines, foreign drivers, no clear path to the local dirt tracker, losing oval-centricity in favor or a balanced schedule. His league has failed in all manners except for the fact he has IMS. And he was born with that.

Complaining about the leadership is part of the territory and is NOT a litmus test for support.


-TU
Oh, for sure complaining about the leadership and the sport in general is indeed part of the territory. And i have no problem with that. Like your arguments about why tony 'succeeded', i don't agree with all that but i have no problem with those comments. And yes, i do understand that there are people who complain big time about the serie and still are fans and like (parts of) the ''product' so it's not a black and white thing.

However, i do think that there is a difference between complaining about the leadership because as a fan of the series you see possible improvements OR the situation in which it isn't about the serie and sport but it is about being anti-tg.

Advocating for TG to have himself 'managed by the management team' (as seppefan's suggestion was) is to me an example of the latter.

[garyshell]

Advocating for TG to have himself 'managed by the management team' (as seppefan's suggestion was) is to me an example of the latter.


I read seppefan's suggestion as more of "...king George" having a press secretary, so he didn't need to speak in public very often. Much like the "other George" the dubya one.

Gary

[TU Homer]

Oh, for sure complaining about the leadership and the sport in general is indeed part of the territory. And i have no problem with that. Like your arguments about why tony 'succeeded', i don't agree with all that but i have no problem with those comments. And yes, i do understand that there are people who complain big time about the serie and still are fans and like (parts of) the ''product' so it's not a black and white thing.

However, i do think that there is a difference between complaining about the leadership because as a fan of the series you see possible improvements OR the situation in which it isn't about the serie and sport but it is about being anti-tg.

Advocating for TG to have himself 'managed by the management team' (as seppefan's suggestion was) is to me an example of the latter.

Let me be clear why I don't want tony to have any involvement. His decision alone splintered and destroyed the sport. That is one thing. But then to replace with the current facsimile is beyond "complaining about the leadership". Do you think many of us hate TG simply because he aint' CART? That isn't my reason. I hate him because his decision ruined the sport, and has continued to ruin it for years. The icing is for him to sit there, and describe CART 1994 as IRL 2009.

The question I have to resolve within myself is,

Is my hatred toward Tony for his decision bigger or less than my love for champcar racing? I admit, I'm pulling a "read my lips" moment, where I swear I'll never watch. I'm now at the point where I swear I won't go to a champcar event till they run Road America. Maybe next month, I'll be sucking TG's toe...



-TU