Official PWRC Thread

[Sulland]

Lets try to collect all PWRC discussion here, so we have it all in one place !

[Sulland]

Anyone that knows when its planned for homologation of the evo X ?

[Mirek]

It should be at 1st July or 1st August.

[Tom206wrc]

Any pickems for Acropolis now we have the entrylist ??? :p :


GO SANDELL GOOOO :bounce: :bounce:

[StevieWonder]

Aigner was very fast last year at acropolis, but a puncture on second day
Hopefully he will win this year !

[AlfaWRC]

Aigner was very fast last year at acropolis, but a puncture on second day
Hopefully he will win this year !

For sure he will win!!! Who else should?!

[Mirek]

Last year on 21 stages (2 cancelled) drivers who drives PWRC this year:

Aigner: 1st place 4x, 2nd place 4x, 3rd place 2x, 4th place 5x, 5th place 1x
Arai: 1st place 3x, 2nd place 2x, 3rd place 5x, 4th place 1x
Prokop: 1st place 2x, 2nd place 5x, 3rd place 4x, 4th place 3x, 5th place 3x

But don't forget that consistency and reliability is more than speed in PWRC.

[Mirek]

Martin Prokop said in an interwiev ( http://rally-mania.cz/index.php?vypisVse=detail&id=5207 ) that he probably wouldn't continue in JWRC next year and that he was wondering about switching into S2000 car until there is S2000+ available. He said he would stay in world rally championship and that he didn't want to spend money for outgoing WRC car. He also said he was wondering about Fabia S2000 as communication between two Czech sides would be easyier.

[Tomi]

]Martin Prokop said in an interwiev ( http://rally-mania.cz/index.php?vypisVse=detail&id=5207 ) that he probably wouldn't continue in JWRC next year and that he was wondering about switching into S2000 car until there is S2000+ available. He said he would stay in world rally championship and that he didn't want to spend money for outgoing WRC car. He also said he was wondering about Fabia S2000 as communication between two Czech sides would be easyier.

Clever choise, next year maybe the s2000 are reliable enough to fight for the title too.

[Sulland]

Who will win PWRC in Acropolis ?

[Tomi]

Hänninen offcourse :) or someone else.

[Mirek]

Nice tip! :D

[Tom206wrc]

Who will win PWRC in Acropolis ?



Sandell :p :

[ZequeArgentina]

Haninen ius my choice.
Subarus are still struggling with reliability, either Arai will also be a good candidate.

[dumb]

I think Aigner.He was very fast last year and also very fast in Argentina.

[Xsara Fan]

Novikov will win :)

[Tom206wrc]

Al Attiyah, Ketomaa and Hänninen seem to be the best until now(after SS3)

Quite disappointed by Sandell times :(

[urabus-denoS2000]

Go Andrej Jereb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tom206wrc]

I have still hope for a PWRC podium of Sandell :)

[Mirek]

Well, we are in finish. Congrats to Andy Aigner for his second victory.

BUT, this was a total disaster of Subarus. There is only one (!) Impreza in top ten, that one is Vertunov with Uspenskiy's N12 car (I think) on 7th place. That is realy dissappointing especialy for a gravel event. The thing is that after half a year and two homologation the less old good N12, the worse overall result for Subaru...

[dimviii]

agree with Mirek!
too many problems for n14.
all of them have overheating problems.Discussing with a guy from Arai team,told me that they haven t homologated the water spray which was available at n12b.this causes more high inlet air temps and in hot climates-rallys like greece overheating.
except that plenty of them broke the same rear trailing arms.
Discussing with Al Attiyah told me that they need to develop much more,and he was really disapointed.
except that it wasn t so fast as we expect from a new model-chassis.
Hanninen was extreme fast,seems to be a clic faster than Aigner,who was the most spectacular by far.
Athanasoulas for me was the surprise of the production in Acropolis.
He had to drive from previous Acropolis(the same n12b from Aimont )
and was extremely fast with plenty of 2-3-4th positions and a ss win when the battle was in fire.
it is a pitty that he doesn t have the money for a full pwrc season.
he would representate Greece very well

[pavlos_a]

agree with Mirek!
too many problems for n14.
all of them have overheating problems.Discussing with a guy from Arai team,told me that they haven t homologated the water spray which was available at n12b.this causes more high inlet air temps and in hot climates-rallys like greece overheating.
except that plenty of them broke the same rear trailing arms.
Discussing with Al Attiyah told me that they need to develop much more,and he was really disapointed.
except that it wasn t so fast as we expect from a new model-chassis.
Hanninen was extreme fast,seems to be a clic faster than Aigner,who was the most spectacular by far.
Athanasoulas for me was the surprise of the production in Acropolis.
He had to drive from previous Acropolis(the same n12b from Aimont )
and was extremely fast with plenty of 2-3-4th positions and a ss win when the battle was in fire.
it is a pitty that he doesn t have the money for a full pwrc season.
he would representate Greece very well

Thanx. Actually we had a lot of fun and was really nice to be back in a rally car. I hope to be able to find some sponsors for more rallies this year.
Lambros Athanassoulas

It seems there are more people leaving and joining this year's PWRC, it's getting little excitement for me

[Tom206wrc]

Well, so after day one in Turkey we have Andreas Aigner leading for 0.9s in front of Patrik Sandell and 5.9s in front of Uwe Nittel !!!! :)

Even the fourth one(Martin Prokop)isn't too far behind(+21s)... ;)

[kleisj]

What happened to Bernardo Sousa and dropped back lost too much time?

[Mirek]

I think he damaged brake circuit.

[Tom206wrc]

Why did Nittel come 4 minutes late out of assistance(mechanical problems I presume) :confused:

Now he's 40s behind after his penalty :(

[Tom206wrc]

What an intense battle between Aigner and Sandell for Pwrc leadership in Turkey!!!

On SS10 this morning Aigner increases his gap to 6s and Sandell takes back the time loss in SS11 and is back to +0.7s... :D

Good pace from Martin Prokop, less than 30s late from leaders

[Sulland]

Find it strange that not more people have swapped to S2000 in PWRC, but they are just waiting for sandell to show results maybe. But in IRC that exercise is done over and over again - should be proof enough.

[kleisj]

Find it strange that not more people have swapped to S2000 in PWRC, but they are just waiting for sandell to show results maybe. But in IRC that exercise is done over and over again - should be proof enough.

PWRC is only gravel rallies right? Their is no tarmac round for PWRC.
No point for changing to S2000. The Group N cars seem to be much better on the loose surfaces.

[Mirek]

No, they aren't. You could see it in Portugal where there PWRC stars Hanninen and Aigner and local Araújo were clearly out of pace. They made few good times in the end when it was raining.

Anyway, Novikov used Peugeot last weekend in Rally White nights and was satisfied with it. Hanninen is doing IRC Russia with Peugeot to test it and Prokop will probably switch to S2000 for next year as well. I think that it only needs time. Rallys in PWRC are long and S2000 were not enough reliable. Now, I think they aren't worse than N4 in reliability.

Maybe Prokop/Sandell comparission is good too. With S1600 Prokop is faster. But in PWRC he is slower than Sandell with Peugeot.

[Tom206wrc]

Not long time ago, at rally Acropolis, Sandell 207's reliability was a disaster(he even retired after superrally the last day) :s

[Wim_Impreza]

]No, they aren't. You could see it in Portugal where there PWRC stars Hanninen and Aigner and local Araújo were clearly out of pace. They made few good times in the end when it was raining.

Anyway, Novikov used Peugeot last weekend in Rally White nights and was satisfied with it. Hanninen is doing IRC Russia with Peugeot to test it and Prokop will probably switch to S2000 for next year as well. I think that it only needs time. Rallys in PWRC are long and S2000 were not enough reliable. Now, I think they aren't worse than N4 in reliability.

Maybe Prokop/Sandell comparission is good too. With S1600 Prokop is faster. But in PWRC he is slower than Sandell with Peugeot.

Absolutely agree Mirek. I must say Prokop is better than Sandell, but the only reason why Sandell is faster in PWRC than your countryman is that the Swedish driver has the best car in PWRC. Only a pity that the Czech drivers has no luck until now this year in the WRC.

[kleisj]

Ok maybe you are right, but truth is what I saw with my own eyes (which also might was deceiving ) that the S2000 was too much noise and too much wheelspin and was visually slower than the PWRC guys. Wherever I saw it....! And is logical with the way it works compared to the Group N since it doesn't have the torque of the turbo and must go to the red line to have full power creating too much loss of acceleration on the loose surfaces! No?
On the other hand I have not any special technical background on the matter and I will not insist too much...!

[Mirek]

Tom206wrc: When there is one car and that one broke, people think all such cars are unreliable just because that one is the only one to watch. You simply have either 100% reliable or 100% crapy car. Nothing else :)

But lets get it from the other point of wiev. There is huge number of Lancers and Imprezas and only few of them are lucky to avoid problems in every PWRC rally. And if Lancer win noone cares that half of other Lancers broke.

[Wim_Impreza]

kleisj, is your opinion based only in the Acropolis Rally or do you have seen other rallies with S2000 cars?

[Sulland]

I think that for PWRC in 09 we will see that the centre of gravity will move from Gr N to S2000, since they have proven to be fastest in IRC.


If FIA leave the regulations, and shift the power over to Gr N again.

[Mirek]

Congrats to Andy Aigner for third win in a row. Amazing!

[wwbroe]

Great rally by Sandell also, alltough i think he is not the quickest man around, he was constantly a treath to top GrN drivers. I would love to see some more S2000 in PWRC. ;)

[Wim_Impreza]

Great rally by Sandell also, alltough i think he is not the quickest man around, he was constantly a treath to top GrN drivers. I would love to see some more S2000 in PWRC. ;)

Not me, it is named 'Production' World Rally Championship.

[urabus-denoS2000]

Not me, it is named 'Production' World Rally Championship.

I agree,the 207 S2000 is a near standard model :p :p :p ...
I hate S2000 being N4...

[Mirek]

Agree. S2000 as N4 is nonsense.

[COD]

I would love to see the whole thing changed to S2000 in the future. those boring sounding turbo cars deserve to go

[Sulland]

That depends on the 24 june Rally Commision meeting.

It might be the outcome.

[urabus-denoS2000]

I would love to see the whole thing changed to S2000 in the future. those boring sounding turbo cars deserve to go

Those "boring sounding turbo cars" are the main formula in most national championships and they can be very exciting.
By saying that you (probably not on purpouse) disrespect the countries that have those "boring sounding turbo cars" as the main weapon.
They should stay as a budget class (although today N4 is FAR from budget)
I think that "they deserve to go" is a little harsh,no offense!!!

[kleisj]

kleisj, is your opinion based only in the Acropolis Rally or do you have seen other rallies with S2000 cars?

I said what I saw on the Acropolis and in conjunction from the personal opinion of a driver who has driven both S2000 and Group N cars. On the other hand I also said that I don't have any special knowledge on the subject so I am open to hear opinions from someone who knows more on the matter.

[Tom206wrc]

I would love to see the whole thing changed to S2000 in the future. those boring sounding turbo cars deserve to go



In this case Mitsubishi and Subaru would have to study complete new cars :mark:

[RS]

I see they forgot to include any aphalt events in pWRC for 2009 again, oops :(

They ought to rename it the World Gravel Rally Championship or something.

[pantealex]

Maybe very good move from RedBull team to skip NORF from their PWRC this year because there are 9 Scandinavians in PWRC at NORF (Arminen second in N NORF2007, Brynildsen, Flodin, Hänninen, Ketomaa, Salo several times Finnish Champion of N-group, Svedlund, Tiippana and Välimäki current leader in Finnish Championship group-A)
Interesting to see how fast are Aigner and Sousa, because they are in NORF, but outside the PWRC.

[ProRally]

Very clever move, it has been always hard to beat the local in group N or even PWRC, so not to nominate it is a clever move.
It is a good opportunity for Hänninen to score some good points.

[Mirek]

Czech crew Jaromír Tarabus - Daniel Trunkát will do PWRC Great Britain in Italian Motoring Club. Tarabus will start with his usual Punto S2000. Don't expect anything, he has no gravel experience and needs only to learn :)

[dumb]

Great place :) in WRC rally.

[Mirek]

First time on gravel. Jaromír Tarabus was testing for Walles Rally GB: http://rally-mania.cz/med.php?g=451&au=0

[Fly]

From my point of view, PWRC is more existing to watch than JWRC. More battles, more good drivers, more gravel rallies. OK, the cars have nothing special and might be boring to watch at some places. But I even found it more existing than IRC itself, the new crowd favourite. I wonder what it would give if the top 5 or 10 drivers in PWRC face the top 5 or 10 drivers in IRC.

[urabus-denoS2000]

From my point of view, PWRC is more existing to watch than JWRC. More battles, more good drivers, more gravel rallies. OK, the cars have nothing special and might be boring to watch at some places. But I even found it more existing than IRC itself, the new crowd favourite. I wonder what it would give if the top 5 or 10 drivers in PWRC face the top 5 or 10 drivers in IRC.

Well I think that only Hanninen and Aigner would be competitive at the IRC...

[Tomi]

From my point of view, PWRC is more existing to watch than JWRC. More battles, more good drivers, more gravel rallies.

What is good also is that the GrN cars are almost even, that makes it easy to compaire drivers.

[RS]

From my point of view, PWRC is more existing to watch than JWRC. More battles, more good drivers, more gravel rallies. OK, the cars have nothing special and might be boring to watch at some places. But I even found it more existing than IRC itself, the new crowd favourite. I wonder what it would give if the top 5 or 10 drivers in PWRC face the top 5 or 10 drivers in IRC.

Given that this thread has been going since the beginning of the year and it only has three pages I think you are probably in the minority there!

There is no doubt that Hanninen is very quick on gravel (stage times in Japan were very close to some of of the WRC crews. Aigner seems pretty solid too and Novikov obviously has speed too. There are a lot of entries in pWRC but hardly any seem capable of a good and consistent performance looking at the championship tables.

[Finni]

There is no doubt that Hanninen is very quick on gravel (stage times in Japan were very close to some of of the WRC crews. Aigner seems pretty solid too and Novikov obviously has speed too. There are a lot of entries in pWRC but hardly any seem capable of a good and consistent performance looking at the championship tables.

I wouldn't use Japan stage as an example of Hänninen's speed reserve. Hänninen was purely driving for the championship. According to Juho conditions were very harsh for the car and he accordingly took very careful approach and targetted to top 2. In normal circumstances Juho is much faster than Novikov or Aigner (see for instance NZ stage times or Greece).

Consistency is hard for pwrc runners because group N vehicles gets broken easely. As s driver Hänninen is extremely reliable (to my knowledge his only driving mistakes have been in NZ where he had few incidents).

Aigner is steady driver and good in slow gravel. He has certainly good potential. Novikov shows great flashes of speed and is hugely talented. At the moment there is still some reliability issues but I think he is definitely one to watch in the future.

[Fly]

Well I think that only Hanninen and Aigner would be competitive at the IRC...

Prokop, Sandell, Ketomaa, Novikov or even Campedelli would all have their place in IRC in my opinion. I've seen PWRC about 10 times in recent years and been to Ieper for IRC last 2 years so I can compare.
Of course, IRC would need more gravel events as Sandell or Ketomaa for instance haven't proved anything on tarmac yet.

[urabus-denoS2000]

Prokop, Sandell, Ketomaa, Novikov or even Campedelli would all have their place in IRC in my opinion. I've seen PWRC about 10 times in recent years and been to Ieper for IRC last 2 years so I can compare.
Of course, IRC would need more gravel events as Sandell or Ketomaa for instance haven't proved anything on tarmac yet.

Prokop could be fast,Novikov proved himself in Rally Russia but both would still be of the pace from Vouilloz,Basso,Loix,Rossetti,etc. especially on tarmac.
Sandell...maybe...
I like Campedelli very much (he won Rally Poreč in Croatia in 2006) but lets be realistic in Italy he is nowhere near the pace of Basso,Ucci,Rossetti,Travaglia,Navarra,etc. on gravel,especcialy on tarmac...

But what do you mean by "have their place in the IRC"?
Outright win?Well then sorry but none of them could win in the IRC,my opinion...
Fight for podium places and 4-6 places?Sure

[Fly]

Prokop could be fast,Novikov proved himself in Rally Russia but both would still be of the pace from Vouilloz,Basso,Loix,Rossetti,etc. especially on tarmac.
Sandell...maybe...
I like Campedelli very much (he won Rally Poreč in Croatia in 2006) but lets be realistic in Italy he is nowhere near the pace of Basso,Ucci,Rossetti,Travaglia,Navarra,etc. on gravel,especcialy on tarmac...

But what do you mean by "have their place in the IRC"?
Outright win?Well then sorry but none of them could win in the IRC,my opinion...
Fight for podium places and 4-6 places?Sure

I mean that they would fight for the win on gravel but could be far from podium on tarmac.

[RS]

Prokop, Sandell, Ketomaa, Novikov or even Campedelli would all have their place in IRC in my opinion. I've seen PWRC about 10 times in recent years and been to Ieper for IRC last 2 years so I can compare.
Of course, IRC would need more gravel events as Sandell or Ketomaa for instance haven't proved anything on tarmac yet.

But Ieper is a tarmac event and there is no tarmac in pWRC?

[Tomi]

Prokop, Sandell, Ketomaa, Novikov or even Campedelli would all have their place in IRC in my opinion. I've seen PWRC about 10 times in recent years and been to Ieper for IRC last 2 years so I can compare.
Of course, IRC would need more gravel events as Sandell or Ketomaa for instance haven't proved anything on tarmac yet.

I dont think irc is any option for Finnish drivers, so the whole issue is hypothetic.

[Fly]

I dont think irc is any option for Finnish drivers, so the whole issue is hypothetic.

Of course it's not an option. I just wanted to point out the level of driving is this year's PWRC.

[Fly]

But Ieper is a tarmac event and there is no tarmac in pWRC?

No matter what the surface is, you can see if a driver is talented or not in Ieper or Wales.

[Micke_VOC]

Patrik Flodin gonna do Rally Wales and fighting for PWRC points.
For the same team he did final round of russian championship for .
Subaru Rally Team Russia ?

[Mirek]

It was Uspenskyi rally team. I think Vertunov drive for the same team.