A solution to Surfers - I might have one!

[Adder]

Hmm, finally caught up with the news now and I was discussing it with a friend at lunch yesterday who has been a CART fan and describing what this years IndyCar Series could be like and she seemed to fully agree with the position we might well be in now.

A series that once more has a combination of short ovals, speedways, road and street courses, a series that will see a Rahal vs an Andretti, Penske vs. Ganassi and Newman/Haas. And a series that has one of the three most famous motor races in the world at its centre.

So the cars are ugly and not turbo charged, but there's plenty of time to change that!

But onto Australia and the problem of Chicago having to have the season ending round at the moment. Well I think there's a straightforward answer in the short term, we have Surfers as Round 1 of the 2009 IndyCar Season! It's been done before with the first IRL Season, so scope to do it again!

[994ever]

Hmm, finally caught up with the news now and I was discussing it with a friend at lunch yesterday who has been a CART fan and describing what this years IndyCar Series could be like and she seemed to fully agree with the position we might well be in now.

A series that once more has a combination of short ovals, speedways, road and street courses, a series that will see a Rahal vs an Andretti, Penske vs. Ganassi and Newman/Haas. And a series that has one of the three most famous motor races in the world at its centre.

So the cars are ugly and not turbo charged, but there's plenty of time to change that!

But onto Australia and the problem of Chicago having to have the season ending round at the moment. Well I think there's a straightforward answer in the short term, we have Surfers as Round 1 of the 2009 IndyCar Season! It's been done before with the first IRL Season, so scope to do it again!

My guess: when the current contract ends, Indycar will not be going to Australia.

[dataman1]

My guess: when the current contract ends, Indycar will not be going to Australia.

I'm not so sure. As I recall, When CART was in BK court TG wanted to cherry pick Long Beach, Australia, Toronto, Cosworth Engines and the mobile Medical Center facility. Granted the engine thing was to prevent someone else from starting another series IMO.

Add that the crowd size in Australia is close to that of Indy 500. Sponsors and TV want that kind of exposure. The race in Australia is still called "INDY" now that name fits again.

[Cart750hp]

Hmm, finally caught up with the news now and I was discussing it with a friend at lunch yesterday who has been a CART fan and describing what this years IndyCar Series could be like and she seemed to fully agree with the position we might well be in now.

A series that once more has a combination of short ovals, speedways, road and street courses, a series that will see a Rahal vs an Andretti, Penske vs. Ganassi and Newman/Haas. And a series that has one of the three most famous motor races in the world at its centre.

I coudn't agree with you more. Good to see some true fans who are looking forward to the good old racing again.


So the cars are ugly and not turbo charged, but there's plenty of time to change that!

Exactly what I've been saying for the last two to three weeks.


But onto Australia and the problem of Chicago having to have the season ending round at the moment. Well I think there's a straightforward answer in the short term, we have Surfers as Round 1 of the 2009 IndyCar Season! It's been done before with the first IRL Season, so scope to do it again!

I like how you think and open about the possibilities. Isn't it easier to set the schedule now that there's only one series around? Of course. That is the main key why CC and IRL have to be one to move forward.

[millencolin]

having the gold coast indy during march/april is not a good idea...
1. Storm season...
2. The Australian f1gp is on then, why compete directly with this race when it works so well in october


basically the solution is, 2009 move chicago to later in the year if they want to remain the season decider

as for surfers ending once the contract runs out? why would you put an end to such a successful event? thats just lunacy!

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Not that the crowds have been out to watch Champ Cars during the later years, mind you. But with a unified series that's got potential to change, so it would be foolish to ditch it.

[!!WALDO!!]

having the gold coast indy during march/april is not a good idea...
1. Storm season...
2. The Australian f1gp is on then, why compete directly with this race when it works so well in october


basically the solution is, 2009 move chicago to later in the year if they want to remain the season decider

as for surfers ending once the contract runs out? why would you put an end to such a successful event? thats just lunacy!


First it appears the Australian GP is doomed due to huge losses, Bernie is looking for another place and not in Australia.
Surfer's has the touring cars and for half of a CCWS purse get more people than what the "Indy Cars" can bring in. They were already discussing the "world in a post CCWS enviorment" and said the show could go on without the costly CCWS show. The Queensland Government is now seeing this show go "black" and that occured only since the Touring Cars came there.

I like the idea of Opening 2009 season with the 2008 Edition but I doubt that ABC/ESPN really cares about a race that cannot be shown live so thus no ratings. Remember, that show will be up against the Sprint Cup Chase on ABC.

Food for thought.

[millencolin]

First it appears the Australian GP is doomed due to huge losses, Bernie is looking for another place and not in Australia.
Surfer's has the touring cars and for half of a CCWS purse get more people than what the "Indy Cars" can bring in. They were already discussing the "world in a post CCWS enviorment" and said the show could go on without the costly CCWS show. The Queensland Government is now seeing this show go "black" and that occured only since the Touring Cars came there.

I like the idea of Opening 2009 season with the 2008 Edition but I doubt that ABC/ESPN really cares about a race that cannot be shown live so thus no ratings. Remember, that show will be up against the Sprint Cup Chase on ABC.

Food for thought.

The Aust gp is still going to be around for a couple of years, so why compete directly with it. plus the date of Surfers is partly set to the v8 schedule, Indy works in well with the schedule as a good aftermath for the Bathurst 1000.

The Qld Gov't started the Gold Coast Indy to build international awareness of the SouthEast Qld region... how can they do that with our domestic touring car series? Plus the ratings and national exposure for Indy is a lot greater than any v8supercar event (even Bathurst...)

Plus the v8's are not the biggest drawcard for this event. Never has been. Same can be said for the Indycars... its the non-stop partying and drinking.

[!!WALDO!!]

The Aust gp is still going to be around for a couple of years, so why compete directly with it. plus the date of Surfers is partly set to the v8 schedule, Indy works in well with the schedule as a good aftermath for the Bathurst 1000.

The Qld Gov't started the Gold Coast Indy to build international awareness of the SouthEast Qld region... how can they do that with our domestic touring car series? Plus the ratings and national exposure for Indy is a lot greater than any v8supercar event (even Bathurst...)

Plus the v8's are not the biggest drawcard for this event. Never has been. Same can be said for the Indycars... its the non-stop partying and drinking.


I saw links to articles that state otherwise but from 1991-2001 that race lost money according to sources here. From 2002 on the show made money but is still short overall.
The CCWS had a problem with the Touring Cars a couple years ago and were told by the powers you can be replaced. Again reported over here by the CCWS shill.
You may get ratings in Australia but not at 1:00AM on a Saturday Morning here. With ABC paying nearly $40,000,000 for Indy and the balance of the schedule. Until it can be negotiated upwards next September then I see 2008 as difficult.
I read also that the GP will be gone after 2009 so maybe in 2110 the race could go off in January at the time when the Sprints are there and the Midgets are in NZ. This way the Chicagoland race can still end the season, and why not during that time there is no racing.
We had a Winter Heat Series on the old TNN that got good ratings for what it was and ran in January. Maybe tie that in with a race in Brazil two weeks later and open up at Homestead later.

Always an answer but if not then so be it, A1GP maybe a better replacement and cheaper than the $3,750,000 paid to CCWS.

[millencolin]

I saw links to articles that state otherwise but from 1991-2001 that race lost money according to sources here. From 2002 on the show made money but is still short overall.

Where did i mention anything about the events revenue? Its not a 'earn money' kind of event. Its there to bolster the image of the Gold Coast area to the world. Without this event, the awareness of the gold Coast to the international community would be far less than it currently is. That is what the QLD Gov't is trying to do.

Plus Indy generates an economic impact thats very beneficial for the region. Its economic impact is around the $50million mark. Most of the crowd are tourist from nearby Brisbane, so then theres hotels/accom, restraunts, bottle shops etc.





You may get ratings in Australia but not at 1:00AM on a Saturday Morning here. With ABC paying nearly $40,000,000 for Indy and the balance of the schedule. Until it can be negotiated upwards next September then I see 2008 as difficult.

Not everything revolves around the United States. This series is included.
Sponsors are aware of this too. Plus, im sure Espn can run a replay during the day.




I read also that the GP will be gone after 2009 so maybe in 2110 the race could go off in January at the time when the Sprints are there and the Midgets are in NZ. This way the Chicagoland race can still end the season, and why not during that time there is no racing.

No, as I said earlier, its Storm Season! remember that washed out race in 2002, well its a 90% chance that would happen if you have the race in Jan/Feb. So it would be pointless.

[!!WALDO!!]

Where did i mention anything about the events revenue? Its not a 'earn money' kind of event. Its there to bolster the image of the Gold Coast area to the world. Without this event, the awareness of the gold Coast to the international community would be far less than it currently is. That is what the QLD Gov't is trying to do.

Then why oh why did the Powers to Be of the Gold Coast Event complain year after year in U.S. Racing Publications about the losses and the need to turn it around.


Plus Indy generates an economic impact thats very beneficial for the region. Its economic impact is around the $50million mark. Most of the crowd are tourist from nearby Brisbane, so then theres hotels/accom, restraunts, bottle shops etc.

From what has been said and reported, most money is self generated. If true how is "robbing Peter to pay Paul" beneficial. We have the same problem here as even the 500 and 400 are 75% within a 100 radius of IMS. I know hundreds of CART fans and not one ever thought of dropping $10,000 to go to this race. Sorry to burst your bubble.



Not everything revolves around the United States. This series is included. Sponsors are aware of this too. Plus, im sure Espn can run a replay during the day.

An American based series gets it sponsorship based on the market they want to reach. When John Andretti won race one, 65% of the Pennezoil money was for one race, Indianapolis. So winning Australia only helped marketing where? In the U.S.
Replays get no ratings, it has proved it in the past and the Japan stop got a .01 in replay.



No, as I said earlier, its Storm Season! remember that washed out race in 2002, well its a 90% chance that would happen if you have the race in Jan/Feb. So it would be pointless.

That was in November, how is the middle of Summer, storm season? It appears the dirt tracks are getting their shows in.
I look at the problem, move the date to make it fit in 2009 or let it die. I cannot see the value to the ICS if it cannot be moved. ABC is calling the shots, not TG, IMS or the ICS. They want the season over the weekend after Labor Day. So why not start the season the weekend between the NFL Conference Titles and the Super Bowl. That way the schedule could increase to 24 races and plenty of time to retool for the following season.

Oh BTW, if this is working so well, why did the Queensland people put in the Contract the need for an Australian driver? Been in since 2003. I guess all the world wants to see an Australian driver in Australia.

[millencolin]

From what has been said and reported, most money is self generated. If true how is "robbing Peter to pay Paul" beneficial. We have the same problem here as even the 500 and 400 are 75% within a 100 radius of IMS. I know hundreds of CART fans and not one ever thought of dropping $10,000 to go to this race. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Wow, i love people who make judgements on Indy who have never actually been there. Last year I was researching the marketing practices of the Gold Coast Indy for my Business/Sports Mangement degree at university, and there are a significant number of people who travel interstate and overseas to attend Indy. Dont get me wrong, the majority are from Brisbane, but thats not an outright majority. There are a large number of people from New Zealand who attend Indy, due to in part the popularity of V8supercars. Indy also target the other capital cities in Australia through their marketing and it works. Heck last year i saw single handed the amount of Victorians attending Indy, mainly for its party atmosphere. I'm looking forward for this years survey figures to come out because i am sure the numbers of Victorian, New South Wales and New Zealand patrons would have grown.





An American based series gets it sponsorship based on the market they want to reach. When John Andretti won race one, 65% of the Pennezoil money was for one race, Indianapolis. So winning Australia only helped marketing where? In the U.S.
Replays get no ratings, it has proved it in the past and the Japan stop got a .01 in replay.

Have you seen the Champ Car grid lately?

Team Australia - Minardi Team USA - Conquest Racing - PKV

These teams are either owned by Australians and/or sponsored by Australians.
Thats nearly HALF of the Champ Car grid. This event is important to the teams and their sponsors as Australia is becoming a commercial player in open wheel racing in the USA. Sure in 1991 most of J.Andrettis sponsorship money was for that one race, but that was in 1991! 17 years ago! If you want to preserve the big influence Australia has on ChampCar/Indycar racing, best to keep the Gold Coast Indy because a number of teams would be effected if it was leftout of the schedule.

Plus... ratings of 0.1, isnt that the average rating for an open wheel race shown in the USA? :p :



That was in November, how is the middle of Summer, storm season? It appears the dirt tracks are getting their shows in.

Oh i dunno, maybe because it is a little thing called LOCAL KNOWLEDGE! those dirt tracks are all over Australia, pretty big country last time i looked. What happens in one part of Australia doesnt mean it will happen in another. It may be sunny at Parramatta Speedway, but thats over 1000kms away from Surfers. Plus its not on the coast either, so the weather patterns are different. I have been living in the Brisbane/Gold Coast area since I was born, so you'd think I would have a pretty darn good idea what the weather patterns are like by now. the Summer months ranging from November till late march, afternoon storms are a very regular occurance.





Oh BTW, if this is working so well, why did the Queensland people put in the Contract the need for an Australian driver? Been in since 2003. I guess all the world wants to see an Australian driver in Australia.

Just because an Australian has taken part since 03 doesn't mean its in the contract. Craig Gore in 2003 put his v8supercar driver in a Champ Car with Walker Racing. What stemmed from that was Team Australia. He used 2003 as a test to see if sponsoring a Champ car would be a viable business operation for his WPS company.

But you think that putting a person of a home nation in a car is a one off thing that happens here, even though Marcus Marshall and Will Power (add to that list now, Ryan Briscoe) are/were full time drivers in the series, not one off's. Belgium... all of a sudden, Jan Heylen gets a ride. Mexico, Martinez and Dominguez. and im sure the success of Assen was in part to Robert Doornbos.

[ShiftingGears]

as for surfers ending once the contract runs out? why would you put an end to such a successful event? thats just lunacy!

Damn right! IndyCars are part of the appeal of the event. Without them it'd just feel...incomplete.

[!!WALDO!!]

Wow, i love people who make judgements on Indy who have never actually been there. Last year I was researching the marketing practices of the Gold Coast Indy for my Business/Sports Mangement degree at university, and there are a significant number of people who travel interstate and overseas to attend Indy. Dont get me wrong, the majority are from Brisbane, but thats not an outright majority. There are a large number of people from New Zealand who attend Indy, due to in part the popularity of V8supercars. Indy also target the other capital cities in Australia through their marketing and it works. Heck last year i saw single handed the amount of Victorians attending Indy, mainly for its party atmosphere. I'm looking forward for this years survey figures to come out because i am sure the numbers of Victorian, New South Wales and New Zealand patrons would have grown.

So how many people come from outside of the country since this race is an International Event? 5% 10% or 15%?
My point is if Victorians spend money in Queensland then how is this really helping things. Moving money from one to another when you can still get the same for almost $4,000,000 less.
Have you been to U.S. races? Have you seen how we do it?



Have you seen the Champ Car grid lately?

Nobody has lately


Team Australia - Minardi Team USA - Conquest Racing - PKV

These teams are either owned by Australians and/or sponsored by Australians.
Thats nearly HALF of the Champ Car grid. This event is important to the teams and their sponsors as Australia is becoming a commercial player in open wheel racing in the USA. Sure in 1991 most of J.Andrettis sponsorship money was for that one race, but that was in 1991! 17 years ago! If you want to preserve the big influence Australia has on ChampCar/Indycar racing, best to keep the Gold Coast Indy because a number of teams would be effected if it was leftout of the schedule.

Other than Aussie Vinyards which owes Walker $1,500,000 what other effort puts fans in the stands.
65% was the same number in 1996 when CART elected not to run the 500 also. After that many teams lost most of their sponsorship. Look it is nice to support your country but we have as many in New England as you have in your country. It is the same for Canada, great place not many people. Here in the U.S. only 2% are racing fans all divisions. That is only 6,000,000.


Plus... ratings of 0.1, isnt that the average rating for an open wheel race shown in the USA? :p :

That is about 95,000. Most rating are about 750,000 TV on.



Oh i dunno, maybe because it is a little thing called LOCAL KNOWLEDGE! those dirt tracks are all over Australia, pretty big country last time i looked. What happens in one part of Australia doesnt mean it will happen in another. It may be sunny at Parramatta Speedway, but thats over 1000kms away from Surfers. Plus its not on the coast either, so the weather patterns are different. I have been living in the Brisbane/Gold Coast area since I was born, so you'd think I would have a pretty darn good idea what the weather patterns are like by now. the Summer months ranging from November till late march, afternoon storms are a very regular occurance.

I had to leave the stands because of storms in the summer maybe a couple 100 times including Tornado Warnings. Weather is an excuse that is a weak one at that but on planet Earth, Mid Summer is the driest time.
Now we do have Florida that can have a storm at any given time but they still race there. Yes, weather can get you. How many races were like 2002 considering this race was in March at one time also. 1 out of 25 is what? A reason to hold fast?

Look I have been wet more time than you over my 1,000 Open Wheel shows over my 47 years of being DEEPLY involved in this sport. I gave you a suggestion because November is not an option due to the Company spending the $40,000,000. I am sorry but those are the economics of the situation in Indy. Maybe more money could come but a taped delayed race will not do it.

I always enjoyed the Surfer's race and saw them all from 1991 on.




Just because an Australian has taken part since 03 doesn't mean its in the contract. Craig Gore in 2003 put his v8supercar driver in a Champ Car with Walker Racing. What stemmed from that was Team Australia. He used 2003 as a test to see if sponsoring a Champ car would be a viable business operation for his WPS company.

But you think that putting a person of a home nation in a car is a one off thing that happens here, even though Marcus Marshall and Will Power (add to that list now, Ryan Briscoe) are/were full time drivers in the series, not one off's. Belgium... all of a sudden, Jan Heylen gets a ride. Mexico, Martinez and Dominguez. and im sure the success of Assen was in part to Robert Doornbos.

It is in the contract because one year CCWS violated the Contract and it cost them, Champ Car money.
I am a firm believer that putting drivers in regionally here in the U.S. wouldn't hurt. Here in the U.S. more people have heard of Marcus Ambrose than Ryan Briscoe, Will Power or Marcus Marshall combined. Thanks to that little Canadian deal last year with Gordon.

[nigelred5]

I see no reason why they couldn't do that, but it will be with IRL equipment, even if it counts towards the 09 season. I'm confidnet that they will be at Surfers in October.


You can't move a race at Chicagoland too much later in the season, it would be guaranteed cold windy and snowy weather. If it were to be after the Surfer's date, they would need chains and snow tires. That contract shouldn't be for much longer anyway, as TG was bought out of his interest in the track. Although it's a large important market to any series, it's just another ISC track on the bubble when it comes to Openwheel racing events.

I'm sure Honda AND Surfers organizers would love to partner the races to shoulder the transportation costs. It makes both more appealing and I doubt even Tony will dispute the success of the race in Surfers. How many years was the race run in March before switching to september/october? Why can't it move back to our late winter early/spring in the future? I have no problem with the race mandating a local in the series. That works both ways. We need more Americans in American racing. Face it, this is now again a strongly American based series with some international presence. That will surely take some adjustment for more recent fans of CCWS.
As far as the series revolving around America, you better get used to that, that's what started this whole nasty crap to begin with, and that's not gonna change dreamatically with TG in charge. That's a major reason why sponsorship on both sides went down the crapper. We'll still have our share of international drivers and suppliers, and maybe a few events, but that's reality now.

[!!WALDO!!]

I see no reason why they couldn't do that, but it will be with IRL equipment, even if it counts towards the 09 season. I'm confidnet that they will be at Surfers in October.


You can't move a race at Chicagoland too much later in the season, it would be guaranteed cold windy and snowy weather. If it were to be after the Surfer's date, they would need chains and snow tires. That contract shouldn't be for much longer anyway, as TG was bought out of his interest in the track. Although it's a large important market to any series, it's just another ISC track on the bubble when it comes to Openwheel racing events.

I'm sure Honda AND Surfers organizers would love to partner the races to shoulder the transportation costs. It makes both more appealing and I doubt even Tony will dispute the success of the race in Surfers. How many years was the race run in March before switching to september/october? Why can't it move back to our late winter early/spring in the future? I have no problem with the race mandating a local in the series. That works both ways. We need more Americans in American racing. Face it, this is now again a strongly American based series with some international presence. That will surely take some adjustment for more recent fans of CCWS.
As far as the series revolving around America, you better get used to that, that's what started this whole nasty crap to begin with, and that's not gonna change dreamatically with TG in charge. That's a major reason why sponsorship on both sides went down the crapper. We'll still have our share of international drivers and suppliers, and maybe a few events, but that's reality now.

ABC wants the IRL not to conflict with the Sprint Chase, College Football and the NFL. All of which are ratings drainer and costing $400,000,000 for NASCAR and $1,000,000,000 to the NCAA. $40,000,000 to the ICS is minor money to that will get ratings. So an Australian taped show means nothing to ABC.
I remember when this race was announced it was not popular with some car owners, sponsors and the TV production people. But more car owners wanted to go for an extra date to get that $25,000 per car back. So this race represented travel money for two cars and $50,000 stipend from the $250,000 per car required funding cost to be able to get a vote on the board.
As long as the IRL gets money for TV they will be dicated to by those paying the bill.
Yes we need American racing, and we need the Series to be centered in the U.S. I suggested the January Surfers, a Feb. Brazil date and a March date in Mexico City with the Nationwide Tour. Then the balance with the exception of Japan being North American events. We need to get to a weekly race schedule after Indy due to the expected interest. Miss a week you are forgotten about.

[millencolin]

So how many people come from outside of the country since this race is an International Event? 5% 10% or 15%?
My point is if Victorians spend money in Queensland then how is this really helping things. Moving money from one to another when you can still get the same for almost $4,000,000 less.

Having tourists visit from, Canberra for example, and having them spend thier moeny in your region is nothing but good for the local economy. Outside money entering the market. Why do you think regions market themselves and promote their events to other regions within their own country? Because the domestic tourism market is a big money earner. If your region has a successful event, people travelling from other parts of the country to attend is a major economic boost for that local region. Why do you think a state run event such as Indy promote themself to Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide? Same reason for why the Melbourne F1gp, Sydney A1gp and Adelaide's Clipsal 500 (all state run/promoted events) promote themselves to other regions. The domestic tourism market is worth bucketloads. Thats why F1, Indy and other big events compete with each other for the Domestic Tourism dollar.




Have you been to U.S. races? Have you seen how we do it?

No, no I haven't. Thats why i have not made any comments about how American races should be run or promoted. I could make some comments from an outsiders perspective, but I wont because there are some facts you can only gain from attending races in person. You only really understand how an event works and why a fan attends by attending the event yourself. I learnt that this year when attending the Japanese F1gp. There was so many things i learnt about why the fans attended that i only found out when I attended. I didn't realise Aguri Suzuki was viewed as a god :p :

I could make a comment about American races from my point of view, I could compare things such as crowd numbers and why they are not as good/theyre better than Surfers. But I wont because I don't know all the facts.







Other than Aussie Vinyards which owes Walker $1,500,000 what other effort puts fans in the stands.

Errr since when did I mention that was a fan-building exercise. I've told you that the main reason that people go to Indy is to get pissed and act like they're on schoolies week (Spring Break) once again. I was mentioning the Australian presense from a business point of view. Since motorsport is an expensive business, you wouldn't wanna piss off a main group of people who provide money to the sport. IF Indy goes... say goodbye to Team Australia and Conquest's new and badly needed partner and Paul Stoddart will probably say 'Seeya Later Mate'. Losing cars and sponsors is the LAST thing Open Wheel racing need to do right now.








I had to leave the stands because of storms in the summer maybe a couple 100 times including Tornado Warnings. Weather is an excuse that is a weak one at that but on planet Earth, Mid Summer is the driest time.
Now we do have Florida that can have a storm at any given time but they still race there. Yes, weather can get you. How many races were like 2002 considering this race was in March at one time also. 1 out of 25 is what? A reason to hold fast?

Mid Summer, the driest time? Yeah, maybe in you're part of the world. Tell that to the many flooded areas in Queensland, including Logan (right next to the Gold Coast) It's mid summer here and its been raining EVERYDAY for the last 3 weeks. and before thats its been a ratio of around 4.5:2.5 rainy days to dry days for the last 3 months. As i said about the USA races, I don't comment on them because i have not experienced it. Same can be said with the weather.

When planning an event, weather is an issue. If your event is badly effected by rain, its not a good idea to hold it in a rainy season (if your region does have a rain season). Whats the point of holding an event when 4 out of 5 years it will be rained out. If an event keeps getting rained out, no one will invest in it and crowd figures will drop. We have a rain season and it happens to be Mid Summer. Strong odds are that it will be the 2002 Indy all over again.






It is in the contract because one year CCWS violated the Contract and it cost them, Champ Car money.
I am a firm believer that putting drivers in regionally here in the U.S. wouldn't hurt.

I stand corrected from before, it was 2004 that 'Bezzy' was driving for Walker. But what year did they miss out on? because this part of the contract has never been spoken about in public. Got a link? Bezzy in 04, Marshall'n'Power in 05, Power'n'Briscoe in 06, Power in 07. And if you are a firm believer of putting in drivers from their regional area, why you making a big deal about Australian drivers?

[millencolin]

Damn right! IndyCars are part of the appeal of the event. Without them it'd just feel...incomplete.

Exactly... It will be the Clipsal 500 except with beaches and breasts :p :

[Redracer]

Just call it an All-Star race

[!!WALDO!!]

Having tourists visit from, Canberra for example, and having them spend thier moeny in your region is nothing but good for the local economy. Outside money entering the market. Why do you think regions market themselves and promote their events to other regions within their own country? Because the domestic tourism market is a big money earner. If your region has a successful event, people travelling from other parts of the country to attend is a major economic boost for that local region. Why do you think a state run event such as Indy promote themself to Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide? Same reason for why the Melbourne F1gp, Sydney A1gp and Adelaide's Clipsal 500 (all state run/promoted events) promote themselves to other regions. The domestic tourism market is worth bucketloads. Thats why F1, Indy and other big events compete with each other for the Domestic Tourism dollar.

Yes, but who is the promoter of this event, the government or a private group?



No, no I haven't. Thats why i have not made any comments about how American races should be run or promoted. I could make some comments from an outsiders perspective, but I wont because there are some facts you can only gain from attending races in person. You only really understand how an event works and why a fan attends by attending the event yourself. I learnt that this year when attending the Japanese F1gp. There was so many things i learnt about why the fans attended that i only found out when I attended. I didn't realise Aguri Suzuki was viewed as a god :p :

I have promoted events, although smaller than this but still putting tons of money at risk. Fans are very fickle.


I could make a comment about American races from my point of view, I could compare things such as crowd numbers and why they are not as good/theyre better than Surfers. But I wont because I don't know all the facts.

One problem is how many people in the "infield" (In high rises) are spending money on this? Good example was Bruton Smith saying he would love to do a race around Manhattan because he would have 7,000,000 people in the "infield" and he figures that 20% would pay money to see it. That show would make money, your event may have 75,000 in the high rises paying nothing.




Errr since when did I mention that was a fan-building exercise. I've told you that the main reason that people go to Indy is to get pissed and act like they're on schoolies week (Spring Break) once again. I was mentioning the Australian presense from a business point of view. Since motorsport is an expensive business, you wouldn't wanna piss off a main group of people who provide money to the sport. IF Indy goes... say goodbye to Team Australia and Conquest's new and badly needed partner and Paul Stoddart will probably say 'Seeya Later Mate'. Losing cars and sponsors is the LAST thing Open Wheel racing need to do right now.

It is all about building the fan base. If it does not build fan base then it will die. Look the crowd for F-1 is not matching the expected revenue increase that Bernie is asking for in 2010. Same fans, same revenue is what we call flat.



Mid Summer, the driest time? Yeah, maybe in you're part of the world. Tell that to the many flooded areas in Queensland, including Logan (right next to the Gold Coast) It's mid summer here and its been raining EVERYDAY for the last 3 weeks. and before thats its been a ratio of around 4.5:2.5 rainy days to dry days for the last 3 months. As i said about the USA races, I don't comment on them because i have not experienced it. Same can be said with the weather.

So November, December, January, Febuary and March are no good because it might rain, heavily. Gee it was 2004 when I got chased from the stands at the GSIR because of a tornado warning.
I guess since there is no good time then how can there be a race. Risk taking requires taking a risk.


When planning an event, weather is an issue. If your event is badly effected by rain, its not a good idea to hold it in a rainy season (if your region does have a rain season). Whats the point of holding an event when 4 out of 5 years it will be rained out. If an event keeps getting rained out, no one will invest in it and crowd figures will drop. We have a rain season and it happens to be Mid Summer. Strong odds are that it will be the 2002 Indy all over again.

17 races at two times of the year and one bad show. Yet you want to keep it then, but the ABC Contract will not allow it. A FACT!




I stand corrected from before, it was 2004 that 'Bezzy' was driving for Walker. But what year did they miss out on? because this part of the contract has never been spoken about in public. Got a link? Bezzy in 04, Marshall'n'Power in 05, Power'n'Briscoe in 06, Power in 07. And if you are a firm believer of putting in drivers from their regional area, why you making a big deal about Australian drivers?

2003 it was put in and has been spoken about here in the U.S. in NSSN. Of course the number that read that are about what shows up for your show.
I don't see it as a big deal, as a promoter, you need a someone to bring in the local crowd. So the Surfer's promoter saw that the Champ Cars were not the draw and after that 2002 mess, it became obvious to the coin counters that things were heading the wrong way again. In 2003 the promoter got about $500,000 off the sanction fee. I bet that wasn't spoken about in public. It was here.

In closing, there will be no race in November based on the TV Contract. I gave you specific reasons why. TG already talked about the length of the off season so January would make sense. Heck if Australia doesn't want it then maybe a South American DH and then Mexico City with the Nationwide Cars and Marcus Ambrose.

[nigelred5]

"So November, December, January, Febuary and March are no good because it might rain, heavily. Gee it was 2004 when I got chased from the stands at the GSIR because of a tornado warning.
I guess since there is no good time then how can there be a race. Risk taking requires taking a risk."


Waldo, Apparently you don't understand a rainy season. I think you are missing a very legitimate point about weather. Just because you and 30 milion or so somewhat interesting people choose to live in areas where tornados are considered a tolerable weather phenomenon and anything short of 20 inch snowstorm is just flurries and a minor inconvenience, Most race fans are NOT of the same mindset. Why F1 insists on going to Japan in late fall yer after year is beyond me. it ALWAYS rains at least 1 day, if not the entire weekend. Going to races in the pouring rain Sucks. I grew up going to the Glen in the 70's doing just that, and honestly the weather sucked. I've thrown snowballs on the infield at Nazareth in April. Brain surgeon scheduling. If I had a better than 80 percent chance that I would have to duck a tornado during the course of a racing event to attend, well, I'm not going to chance it. No promoter is going to choose to willingly guarantee attendees are going to have to endure torrential rain during a festival the size of the Surfers event. Do any of the series short of a snowmobile series schedule races in say, Milwaukee in January, discounting the very high probability that fans would encounter below freezing teameratures, high winds and heavy snow? Why is Chicagoland scheduled in September and not December or January when Nascar and most Football is over? Surely snow wouldn't affect the number of fans from Chicago attending a three hour event? Neither is condusive to good crowds (unless of course the Packers were playing the Bears) That is just foolish to discount the effect that weather play son an event.

[!!WALDO!!]

"So November, December, January, Febuary and March are no good because it might rain, heavily. Gee it was 2004 when I got chased from the stands at the GSIR because of a tornado warning.
I guess since there is no good time then how can there be a race. Risk taking requires taking a risk."


Waldo, Apparently you don't understand a rainy season. I think you are missing a very legitimate point about weather. Just because you and 30 milion or so somewhat interesting people choose to live in areas where tornados are considered a tolerable weather phenomenon and anything short of 20 inch snowstorm is just flurries and a minor inconvenience, Most race fans are NOT of the same mindset. Why F1 insists on going to Japan in late fall yer after year is beyond me. it ALWAYS rains at least 1 day, if not the entire weekend. Going to races in the pouring rain Sucks. I grew up going to the Glen in the 70's doing just that, and honestly the weather sucked. I've thrown snowballs on the infield at Nazareth in April. Brain surgeon scheduling. If I had a better than 80 percent chance that I would have to duck a tornado during the course of a racing event to attend, well, I'm not going to chance it. No promoter is going to choose to willingly guarantee attendees are going to have to endure torrential rain during a festival the size of the Surfers event. Do any of the series short of a snowmobile series schedule races in say, Milwaukee in January, discounting the very high probability that fans would encounter below freezing teameratures, high winds and heavy snow? Why is Chicagoland scheduled in September and not December or January when Nascar and most Football is over? Surely snow wouldn't affect the number of fans from Chicago attending a three hour event? Neither is condusive to good crowds (unless of course the Packers were playing the Bears) That is just foolish to discount the effect that weather play son an event.

Look one out of 18 races it rained. What about all those March races? Look if there isn't a time then no race. It is simple. January there is July here. Lets see we are going to Iowa, Nashville, Edmonton and Mid Ohio. How much you want to bet that there will be rain in the forecast for at least 2 of those races?
So if we can race 4 races in the middle of our July, I guess it is too risky for 4 days in their July.
I see that you do not understand the difference between Northern and Southern Hemisphere otherwise you wouldn't have made the above statements. As it is the Middle of Summer there in January.


Milwaukee in January, discounting the very high probability that fans would encounter below freezing teameratures, high winds and heavy snow? Why is Chicagoland scheduled in September and not December or January when Nascar and most Football is over? Surely snow wouldn't affect the number of fans from Chicago attending a three hour event? Neither is condusive to good crowds (unless of course the Packers were playing the Bears) That is just foolish to discount the effect that weather play son an event.

[!!WALDO!!]

I am picking up a rumor that some deal for Surfer's is done. No date or details but from a source I know and is right more often than RM.

It involves the possibility of Watkins Glen being dropped for Toronto either in 2008 or 2009.

I see that as a mistake as you do not urinate where you eat, ISC.

[!!WALDO!!]

http://www2.indystar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3508327&postcount=1


No date yet.

[garyshell]

http://www2.indystar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3508327&postcount=1


No date yet.


Great news!!!! I am glad that has been taken care of. This says a lot about "...king George's" commitment to making this work.

Gary

[!!WALDO!!]

http://www2.indystar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3508603&postcount=1

The Australian race was scheduled for October 25th on the Champ Car calendar. The final event on the IRL schedule is September 7 in Chicago. It's believed the contract with the Chicago race stipulates that it be the season-ending event, so that's why the Gold Coast Indy would be an exhibition race in 2008.

[nigelred5]

Look one out of 18 races it rained. What about all those March races? Look if there isn't a time then no race. It is simple. January there is July here. Lets see we are going to Iowa, Nashville, Edmonton and Mid Ohio. How much you want to bet that there will be rain in the forecast for at least 2 of those races?
So if we can race 4 races in the middle of our July, I guess it is too risky for 4 days in their July.
I see that you do not understand the difference between Northern and Southern Hemisphere otherwise you wouldn't have made the above statements. As it is the Middle of Summer there in January.

NO, January there is JANUARY there.! Would you rather we go to Edmonton in March?

That's all Bull$-- response to my comments and you know it. I understand the seasonal differences as well as the differences in general weather patterns quite well thank you. Summer, as you seem to understand it, has little to do with the RAINY season in MANY areas. Tell me when it rains here where I live. I can tell you it is rarely in the summer! It's a dust bowl by late July here. But that's the rainy season everywhere according to your logic isn't it? What is winter in Miami like? I'm still waiting to see my first snowfall on Miami Beach. Doesn't it snow in the winter? Why is the late summer and early fall low season for the Carribean cruise industry? Aren't you guaranteed warm weater? Ever hear of Hurricane season? Personally, I"m not going to book a $10K cruise to the eastern carribean in August. My point is, just because mother nature likes to rain on your parades and swirl your wheaties every ten minutes in the summer time and you seem to be ok with that does not mean that race fans in March in Northeastern Australia would be. No one wants rain on their beach vacation, which is what Surfer's paradise is and what is more likey than not in late summer in Queensland. The organizers have found that their race is more successful in the early southern summer than late or they wouldn't have ASKED for that date years ago.

I guess like everything else, we'll just have to wait and see what the 09 schedule brings now that we know the long term future is locked up with Indycars.

[nigelred5]

I am picking up a rumor that some deal for Surfer's is done. No date or details but from a source I know and is right more often than RM.

It involves the possibility of Watkins Glen being dropped for Toronto either in 2008 or 2009.

I see that as a mistake as you do not urinate where you eat, ISC.

I agree, but I would be sad to see that happen as I love the Glen and really want to see them race there for a long time. I do believe Toronto is an event that needs to be saved though and I have been under the impression that the Glen event has been shaky from it's inception and was likely on the chopping block for 09 anyway. Here again, temperature falls into play. If they are going to go to Canada twice, Chicago, Milwaukee, Kansas and Iowa, then possibly Road America and Cleveland, there are only so many summer weekends in some relatively close markets. Something will have to give.

[!!WALDO!!]

NO, January there is JANUARY there.! Would you rather we go to Edmonton in March?

What? It is summer down under not winter. Look it up on the internet.




Bull$-- response to my comments and you know it. I understand the seasonal differences as well as the differences in general weather patterns quite well thank you. Summer, as you seem to understand it, has little to do with the RAINY season in MANY areas. Tell me when it rains here where I live. I can tell you it is rarely in the summer! It's a dust bowl by late July here. But that's the rainy season everywhere according to your logic isn't it? What is winter in Miami like? I'm still waiting to see my first snowfall on Miami Beach. Doesn't it snow in the winter? Why is the late summer and early fall low season for the Carribean cruise industry? Aren't you guaranteed warm weater? Ever hear of Hurricane season? Personally, I"m not going to book a $10K cruise to the eastern carribean in August. My point is, just because mother nature likes to rain on your parades and swirl your wheaties every ten minutes in the summer time and you seem to be ok with that does not mean that race fans in March in Northeastern Australia would be. No one wants rain on their beach vacation, which is what Surfer's paradise is and what is more likey than not in late summer in Queensland. The organizers have found that their race is more successful in the early southern summer than late or they wouldn't have ASKED for that date years ago.

Wow! The current date is the middle of Spring down there. The race used to be run in MARCH, no hurricanes, downpours or snow.

I think you better go back to school and as far as weather I am sitting on an Airline Transport Pilot Certificate with a Single Engine and Multi Engine restriction with a Number 2105937. Also was a former Certified Flight Instructor with an Airplane and Instrument restriction, plus a Certified Ground Instructor, Advance and Instrument.
Any clue what 25% of all FAA Written Tests cover?

[nanders]

What? It is summer down under not winter. Look it up on the internet.





Wow! The current date is the middle of Spring down there. The race used to be run in MARCH, no hurricanes, downpours or snow.

I think you better go back to school and as far as weather I am sitting on an Airline Transport Pilot Certificate with a Single Engine and Multi Engine restriction with a Number 2105937. Also was a former Certified Flight Instructor with an Airplane and Instrument restriction, plus a Certified Ground Instructor, Advance and Instrument.
Any clue what 25% of all FAA Written Tests cover?

You guys should know better then to argue with !!Waldil!! ... he knows everything.

[!!WALDO!!]

You guys should know better then to argue with !!Waldil!! ... he knows everything.

So what is January in Australia? I learned that in 1962 when I was 8, so what are these peoples excuse?

[garyshell]

NO, January there is JANUARY there.! Would you rather we go to Edmonton in March?



What? It is summer down under not winter. Look it up on the internet.


So what is January in Australia? I learned that in 1962 when I was 8, so what are these peoples excuse?


January in Austraila is summer. But that is not what you originally asked. You asked "is summer down under not winter". You did NOT ask "is summer down under not winter HERE". Notice anything different in the two sentences. Or is this like your not seeing I was betting the $20 on a future chassis change when I said "Do you REALLY believe that the new formula will only be an engine?" Or when you read nigelred5 saying "January there is January here" and interpreted it as "January there is winter here".

For some one with a photgraphic memory and so much smarter than all the rest of us here, your understanding of some very simple language is rather baffling.

Gary

[garyshell]

You guys should know better then to argue with !!Waldil!! ... he knows everything.


Yep, just ask him. He knows that when someone bets $20 on "Do you REALLY believe that the new formula will only be an engine?" that they are placing a bet on something that happened in the past. Yep, he knows EVERYTHING.

Gary

[!!WALDO!!]

Yep, just ask him. He knows that when someone bets $20 on "Do you REALLY believe that the new formula will only be an engine?" that they are placing a bet on something that happened in the past. Yep, he knows EVERYTHING.

Gary


You lost, send it to PO 2292 60525-8592

See you use the word "will" I do not, it is "may" I see you didn't know the answer.

[Hoop-98]

Yep, just ask him. He knows that when someone bets $20 on "Do you REALLY believe that the new formula will only be an engine?" that they are placing a bet on something that happened in the past. Yep, he knows EVERYTHING.

Gary

Maybe here is a clue.....

http://www.yourprops.com/norm-4511c4ead8647-Back+To+The+Future+2.jpeg

rh

[garyshell]

It is simple. January there is July here.


NO, January there is JANUARY here.


So what is January in Australia? I learned that in 1962 when I was 8, so what are these peoples excuse?

Well I learned in 1956 at age five that January is January here, in Australia, in Japan, in Timbuktu or anywhere else on the planet, just like nigelred5 told you. January there is not July here, like you initially said. It might be LIKE July here, but that was not what your said. For someone with a photographic memory and so much smarter than the rest of us these little details seem to escape your notice.

Gary

[!!WALDO!!]

Well I learned in 1956 at age five that January is January here, in Australia, in Japan, in Timbuktu or anywhere else on the planet, just like nigelred5 told you. January there is not July here, like you initially said. It might be LIKE July here, but that was not what your said. For someone with a photographic memory and so much smarter than the rest of us these little details seem to escape your notice.

Gary

Since I am talking about seasons. Please tell me that the season in Japan is the same in Australia at the same.

So the middle of Summer in Australia is not good enough to race in when in July here, or the middle of Summer the IRL will race every weekend.

What did I do to you that causes you to come after me constantly?

I do know one thing you weren't born in 1951 as we have civility and do not act like children.

[garyshell]

Yep, just ask him. He knows that when someone bets $20 on "Do you REALLY believe that the new formula will only be an engine?" that they are placing a bet on something that happened in the past. Yep, he knows EVERYTHING.

Gary


You lost, send it to PO 2292 60525-8592

See you use the word "will" I do not, it is "may" I see you didn't know the answer.


Really? I formulated the bet and I used the words NEW and WILL. I proposed the bet as a response to your saying "He could just change engines." "Will" and "could" are future tense verbs. Another one of those little details that has escaped your notice?

The NEW formula has not been announced yet. When it is we can decide who owes who money.

Gary

[ShiftingGears]

January here is the middle of Summer (for the record, it was one of the wettest Summers in 20 years here). Several Queensland towns were flooded.

[!!WALDO!!]

Really? I formulated the bet and I used the words NEW and WILL. I proposed the bet as a response to your saying "He could just change engines." "Will" and "could" are future tense verbs. Another one of those little details that has escaped your notice?

The NEW formula has not been announced yet. When it is we can decide who owes who money.

Gary


I gave you a point in history when the formula was changed by an engine. It was changed in 1956 by a size reduction in the engines, it was changed again on 1/1/1969 by engine sizes and types.

Formula can change by just changing the type of engine. So if the ICS adopts the Cosworth and drops the Honda in 2010 did the formula change?

You owe me $20.00 otherwise you are a welcher.

[garyshell]

What did I do to you that causes you to come after me constantly?

I do know one thing you weren't born in 1951 as we have civility and do not act like children.

Let me ask you the same question. What makes you come after the other folks in this forum, with tales of your photographic memory and air of superiority? I am only responding to your coming after other folks. If you go back and look carefully I have only made these statements when you have belittled someone else's knowledge or opinion.

And you "KNOW" I wasn't born in 1951, huh? This is precisely why I and others "come after you constantly", you constantly tell people that what they know is wrong and that you are always right. I'm ready to make another bet with you, but this time lets up the stakes a bit. And for this bet we won't need to wait one or two years for the formula to be announced. I have $100,000.00 that says I WAS born in 1951. Wanna take me up on that bet?

Gary

[!!WALDO!!]

January here is the middle of Summer (for the record, it was one of the wettest Summers in 20 years here). Several Queensland towns were flooded.


So what will it be like next year? I guess there is never a good time to do a race there. Can't do it next year due to the wettest January in 2008 since 1988.

We had a wet August in 2007, so the IRL should cancel August races due to the chance it could rain.

Was Surfer's Paradise one of the towns flooded?

[garyshell]

Really? I formulated the bet and I used the words NEW and WILL. I proposed the bet as a response to your saying "He could just change engines." "Will" and "could" are future tense verbs. Another one of those little details that has escaped your notice?

The NEW formula has not been announced yet. When it is we can decide who owes who money.

Gary


I gave you a point in history when the formula was changed by an engine. It was changed in 1956 by a size reduction in the engines, it was changed again on 1/1/1969 by engine sizes and types.

Formula can change by just changing the type of engine. So if the ICS adopts the Cosworth and drops the Honda in 2010 did the formula change?

You owe me $20.00 otherwise you are a welcher.

I could care less about your specious comments about 1956 or 1969. Did I say ANYTHING in the bet about what happened in the past? Which part of NEW or WILL implies what happened in the past.

I owe you nothing until the NEW formula is announced for 2010. If it is only an engine change, I'll pay up. Simple as that.

Gary

[ShiftingGears]

So what will it be like next year? I guess there is never a good time to do a race there. Can't do it next year due to the wettest January in 2008 since 1988.

We had a wet August in 2007, so the IRL should cancel August races due to the chance it could rain.

Was Surfer's Paradise one of the towns flooded?

Who knows? Weathermen are wrong at least 60% of the time. And no, Surfers wasn't flooded. But it is more likely to rain in Summer than in the slot they have.

[!!WALDO!!]

Let me ask you the same question. What makes you come after the other folks in this forum, with tales of your photographic memory and air of superiority? I am only responding to your coming after other folks. If you go back and look carefully I have only made these statements when you have belittled someone else's knowledge or opinion.

I don't come after anyone. I have been jumped on for responding that's all.


And you "KNOW" I wasn't born in 1951, huh? This is precisely why I and others "come after you constantly", you constantly tell people that what they know is wrong and that you are always right. I'm ready to make another bet with you, but this time lets up the stakes a bit. And for this bet we won't need to wait two years for the formula to be announced. I have $100,000.00 that says I WAS born in 1951. Wanna take me up on that bet?

Gary

No because you would welch on the bet. If you are 56 going 57 then act like it. 12 years on places like this you find the people that are older, they do not go from thread to thread smacking strangers in the mouth for making comments about what is being said.

So act your age, my brithday is 1/17/1954 0700 Hinsdale, IL

[!!WALDO!!]

Who knows? Weathermen are wrong at least 60% of the time. And no, Surfers wasn't flooded. But it is more likely to rain in Summer than in the slot they have.

In 2002 was the current slot, no problems when they ran in March.

[garyshell]

Who knows? Weathermen are wrong at least 60% of the time. And no, Surfers wasn't flooded. But it is more likely to rain in Summer than in the slot they have.


I am guessing the rain insurance for an event is higher in the summer than a fall event in Australia. I wonder if !!Waldo!!'s insurance man knows that?

Gary

[!!WALDO!!]

I am guessing the rain insurance for an event is higher in the summer than a fall event in Australia. I wonder if !!Waldo!!'s insurance man knows that?

Gary

Ever bought rain insurance for a race you promoted? I did of course it was a dirt track and you do not race in the rain.

I think Surfer's is paved street and they can race in the rain.

[Dave Brock]

Ever bought rain insurance for a race you promoted? I did of course it was a dirt track and you do not race in the rain.

I think Surfer's is paved street and they can race in the rain.

Race? in the rain at Surfers??
Maybe... but only after the traditional 1st corner 1st lap dogpile especially in the wet.
I think there was an allsuion being made w/o admitting that a BIG ONE annualy is always expected and served up it fan appreciation.

[garyshell]

I don't come after anyone. I have been jumped on for responding that's all.

Nice play of the "victim" card.



No because you would welch on the bet.

No you won't take me up on it, because you don't want to back up your claim of what you said you "know". Nice play of the back pedal card.

Now before Starter or another mod swoops in, !!Waldo!! in my history of using forums and newsgroups dating back to Compuserve in 1984, you now have the honor of being the very first person to be placed in my "ignore list". I'll remove you from that list when the 2010 formula is announced and we'll see who welches on any bets. Bye.

Gary

[!!WALDO!!]

I could care less about your specious comments about 1956 or 1969. Did I say ANYTHING in the bet about what happened in the past? Which part of NEW or WILL implies what happened in the past.

Wait a minute, you are older than me so you should know the changes. They were key to leading the sport into the future. The 1/1/1969 was used by the CCWS up to and through Long Beach.


I owe you nothing until the NEW formula is announced for 2010. If it is only an engine change, I'll pay up. Simple as that.


Gary

See you wanted examples of engine changes changing the formula but with examples you do not want to read. F-1 has changed formulas with engines several times. When Turbos were banned the Formula changed.

I have no clue except that nothing will be discussed until this season is over. My point is they could go to a "gap" formula by modifying the current until 2013, then change the whole thing to "green".
You take everyone word as the final word, the point is things change and flexibility is required but my source inside the IRL as of 2200 was saying everyone is working 2008 and all other things are moved to the back burner.

I guess I am on his IGNORE LIST now.

So back ON TOPIC to Australia, what will be required to get all to a non-point race?
How much more money?

[Dave Brock]

Nice play of the "victim" card.




No you won't take me up on it, because you don't want to back up your claim of what you said you "know". Nice play of the back pedal card.

Now before Starter or another mod swoops in, !!Waldo!! in my history of using forums and newsgroups dating back to Compuserve in 1984, you now have the honor of being the very first person to be placed in my "ignore list". I'll remove you from that list when the 2010 formula is announced and we'll see who welches on any bets. Bye.

Gary

Just a casual observation here...
but if you've been on for that long shouldn't you have gained either a thicker skin or a self controled ability to ignore those/that which you find reprehesible?
I haven't paid an iota of attention to a TV commercial since '74 & have no clue as to who/what the media thinks is a "movie" star and I'd be murdered in Indiana for saying in public that female basketball is for guys who ain't gettin much & relatives of the players.
Maintain control, letting a machine do for you that which you should be able to do w/o a thought is a dangerous precident to set for a human, I mean look at cell phone drivers! ;)
Covering your eyes with E-blinders can be habit forming!

[!!WALDO!!]

Just a casual observation here...
but if you've been on for that long shouldn't you have gained either a thicker skin or a self controled ability to ignore those/that which you find reprehesible?
I haven't paid an iota of attention to a TV commercial since '74 & have no clue as to who/what the media thinks is a "movie" star and I'd be murdered in Indiana for saying in public that female basketball is for guys who ain't gettin much & relatives of the players.
Maintain control, letting a machine do for you that which you should be able to do w/o a thought is a dangerous precident to set for a human, I mean look at cell phone drivers! ;)
Covering your eyes with E-blinders can be habit forming!

See Dave no good turn goes unpunished: From a PM



He won the "Illini 250" at the Meadowbrook, 3.5 Mile Road Course in Carpentersville, IL in 1960. The track is still there although over grown and closed in 1970.

So Nelson joins, Petty, Pearson, Parnelli Jones, A.J. Foyt, Butch Hartman and Don White as drivers that won Stock Cars races on Dirt, Pavement and Road Courses.


Thank you again!

Gary

[Dave Brock]

Maybe it is just preseason jitters before the first flag falls and then again maybe itz the spector of the whole new deal, either way you're both entertaining and have a common bond in the sport, just divergent perspectives & experience.
What will it cost me to get an.."I love you Dude" out of the 2 of you tonight?

[ShiftingGears]

Ever bought rain insurance for a race you promoted? I did of course it was a dirt track and you do not race in the rain.

I think Surfer's is paved street and they can race in the rain.

There is a greater likelihood of rain in Queensland in Summer than in the slot they have now.

They can race in the rain - but remember it is a tight street circuit with close barriers the whole way around. Not ideal for dispersing water, is it?

[nanders]

I don't come after anyone. I have been jumped on for responding that's all.


!!Waldil!!, I'm thinking you should start a "Waldil knows everything" thread, where you just throw up everything you know, if you haven't already, and if nobody stops by to argue with you then just present the argument yourself. Then the forum veterans can just choose to ignore you.

[nigelred5]

So what is January in Australia? I learned that in 1962 when I was 8, so what are these peoples excuse?

Ooooh, aren't you impressive. I could give a rat's A$$ if you are a certified pilot or flight instructor. Nor do I really care how much closer to senility you are than I. Pilots are glorified bus drivers and you could just as well be teaching home economics. Apparently you aren't a meteorologist. January is January. I've never seen a southern hemisphere calendar, however I would suspect that the first month of the Calendar year ISN'T JULY. Would you like to continue to incorrectly discuss the traditional name given to the first month of the Roman calendar, or would you like to acknowledge the general characteristics and weather parrterns of the SEASON in the month of January in Queensland, Australia? Which, by the way, would be considered SUMMER, not spring. What you fail to admit is the SEASONS in Queensland are characterized as much by the precipitation as temperature variation. No smart promoter is going to CHOOSE to hold an event at a time with a significantly higher probablity of inclement weather.


Damn I just love this merged forum. I thought we were rid of Sanguin. UGH.

[garyshell]

Ever bought rain insurance for a race you promoted? I did of course it was a dirt track and you do not race in the rain.

I think Surfer's is paved street and they can race in the rain.


There is a greater likelihood of rain in Queensland in Summer than in the slot they have now.

They can race in the rain - but remember it is a tight street circuit with close barriers the whole way around. Not ideal for dispersing water, is it?


theugsquirrel,

Not ideal for dispersing water, and not likely to draw a good turnout on race day if it is pouring rain. The walkup sales can be affected dramatically.

You would think my "dear friend" Waldo, who knows everything, would know that you don't buy rain insurance to offset loss of revenue incurred because you can't run the street course race, you buy rain insurance to offset the loss of revenue beause the gate will be signifcantly lower.

I help put on one of the larger Concours d'Elegance in the Midwest every year that benefits the Arthritis Foundation. We buy rain insurance. The event, like a road course race, is run rain or shine. But we know the turnout will be minimal if we have a downpour, hence the need for insurance.

Gary

[cartpix]

OK, I'm jumping into this onwe late, but... Didn't they run Surfers, a few years ago, in a torential downpour? BIG accident? Dominguez first win? I snap a pic of Vasser's tub, at Fontana, the next weekend. http://www.deepthrottle.com/Photo/fon02_aussie_tub.jpg
Let me refresh your memory, 2002.

Jeff

[weeflyonthewall]

I saw links to articles that state otherwise but from 1991-2001 that race lost money according to sources here. From 2002 on the show made money but is still short overall.
The CCWS had a problem with the Touring Cars a couple years ago and were told by the powers you can be replaced. Again reported over here by the CCWS shill.
You may get ratings in Australia but not at 1:00AM on a Saturday Morning here. With ABC paying nearly $40,000,000 for Indy and the balance of the schedule. Until it can be negotiated upwards next September then I see 2008 as difficult.
I read also that the GP will be gone after 2009 so maybe in 2110 the race could go off in January at the time when the Sprints are there and the Midgets are in NZ. This way the Chicagoland race can still end the season, and why not during that time there is no racing.
We had a Winter Heat Series on the old TNN that got good ratings for what it was and ran in January. Maybe tie that in with a race in Brazil two weeks later and open up at Homestead later.

Always an answer but if not then so be it, A1GP maybe a better replacement and cheaper than the $3,750,000 paid to CCWS.

Who cares what you think Waldo? You obviously have a different perspective on things than most of us that have posted here for years. Unless you get on a plane and experience Surfer's yourself, you'll never understand its importance on both the Indycar calendar and international TV audience.

[weeflyonthewall]

!!Waldil!!, I'm thinking you should start a "Waldil knows everything" thread, where you just throw up everything you know, if you haven't already, and if nobody stops by to argue with you then just present the argument yourself. Then the forum veterans can just choose to ignore you.

Brilliant post!

[!!WALDO!!]

Who cares what you think Waldo?

It doesn't matter if it comes to January or Feburary then you guys will say "I told you so" and me will be my age and say nothing.

[weeflyonthewall]

Who cares what you think Waldo?


It doesn't matter if it comes to January or Feburary then you guys will say "I told you so" and me will be my age and say nothing.

Have to talk to Mr. Tony Cochrane about that.



You obviously have a different perspective on things than most of us that have posted here for years. Unless you get on a plane and experience Surfer's yourself, you'll never understand its importance on both the Indycar calendar and international TV audience.

You ignored the most significant part of my post.

[garyshell]

You ignored the most significant part of my post.


And where is the surprise in that? I see, indirectly, that uncle Waldo is still up to his tricks.

Gary

[dataman1]

It' the medication. He sometimes forgets a dose.

[!!WALDO!!]

It' the medication. He sometimes forgets a dose.


Only medications I take is for my heart. Plavix is nasty but Tykosin isn't too bad.

So since you appear to be an expert on medications what are you on? It is the children that pick at scabs rather than let wounds heal. :mad: