Subaru S2000

[urabus-denoS2000]

We all know rumors are that Subaru has been planing to make an S2000.
My question is:could they make a competitive car,because of the boxer engine and because of that almost every car they make (and made) is with a turbo?

[Mirek]

Maybe, but what interests me is how FIA will solve controled transmission for longitudinal engine...

[OldF]

I don’t think the engine is a problem if they have a model with a 2-litre NA engine. As it is written in the homologation regulations:

“7.1 Engine
It must come from the model homologated in Group N. Nevertheless, particular cases may be submitted to the Homologation and Technical Working Group: subject to acceptance by the FIA, it will be possible to use an engine from another model of the make, homologated in Group N with 2500 units.”

I’m more concerned about the weight (and the transmission). Subaru is a quit big car and I’m wondering how they are going to get down to the minimum weight 1200 kg. With even a small car like Pug they had to add only 20 kg so the original weight was probably 1180 kg.

[Mirek]

OldF: 1200 kg is limit for gravel rallys. For tarmac and snow rallys the limit is lower - 1150 kg (depends on the wheel size).

[Rally Hokkaido]

I wrote this on WRC Forum last week

"In the last few issues of Best Car - a magazine sold here that specialises in scoops of new models there have been articles about two new models.
The first is an Impreza (Sti version) with a non-turbo 2-litre engine producing about 200ps in current 5-door bodyshape. It will debut at Geneva Motor Show this year.
The second is an unnamed Toyota 3-door coupe that will go on sale September next year. In the first collaboration between the two companies, it will use the same engine and drivetrain (i.e 4WD) as the Subaru model! The magazine speculates that it will form the basis of Toyota's return to WRC.

This raises a technical question for me. If either of the above cars were to be built as S2000, how would the Sadev or other spec. gearboxes be used, as both cars use a longitudinal engine/trans arrangement not the normal east-west of other front-wheel drive cars?"

So Subaru will have a suitable base engine, but same as Mirek I don't know how they will use the FIA specified transmission.
With regard to Toyota the magazine meant they would use the model as a basis for a WRC car, not a S2000 car.

[ProRally]

I wrote this on WRC Forum last week

"In the last few issues of Best Car - a magazine sold here that specialises in scoops of new models there have been articles about two new models.
The first is an Impreza (Sti version) with a non-turbo 2-litre engine producing about 200ps in current 5-door bodyshape. It will debut at Geneva Motor Show this year.
The second is an unnamed Toyota 3-door coupe that will go on sale September next year. In the first collaboration between the two companies, it will use the same engine and drivetrain (i.e 4WD) as the Subaru model! The magazine speculates that it will form the basis of Toyota's return to WRC.

This raises a technical question for me. If either of the above cars were to be built as S2000, how would the Sadev or other spec. gearboxes be used, as both cars use a longitudinal engine/trans arrangement not the normal east-west of other front-wheel drive cars?"

So Subaru will have a suitable base engine, but same as Mirek I don't know how they will use the FIA specified transmission.
With regard to Toyota the magazine meant they would use the model as a basis for a WRC car, not a S2000 car.

I had asked this question to JB of FIA Tech and he said, if there is a solution for the gearbox as long as the price is similar to Sadev (at that time there was only 1 maker, now there are several) he could agree in principal.
So IF this was going to happen, I am sure FIA is willing to follow

[Rally Hokkaido]

Thanks, ProRally.
Somehow I should have known you would have asked Jacques, already!

[J4MIE]

With regard to Toyota the magazine meant they would use the model as a basis for a WRC car, not a S2000 car.

I think at this point in time with the uncertainty over the future of WRC it would be a mistake to start developing a World Rally Car. Suzuki got there just about in time. Time will tell whether WRC regulations will change to S2000 over the next few years.

[Rally Hokkaido]

I think at this point in time with the uncertainty over the future of WRC it would be a mistake to start developing a World Rally Car. Suzuki got there just about in time. Time will tell whether WRC regulations will change to S2000 over the next few years.
Agreed. At this stage it was just speculation by the magazine. However it makes sense from a marketing point of view that this new sporty car (possibly to be called Celica) should be the flagship for Toyota's eventual return to WRC, by which time the technical regs for a WRCar should have been stabilised (S2000 + turbo?). As the production model won't be released until mid-next year, 2010 would be the absolute earliest that we would see a Toyota WRCar competing.

[RS]

Toyota should give up their own F1 programme, just supply engines to Williams instead and come back to rallying!

[urabus-denoS2000]

Subaru Argentina (Not sure) ran an Impreza with an atmosferic engine (without last year

[urabus-denoS2000]

Here is a pic of that Subaru

http://www.automagazin.co.yu/slike/vesti/20070831002748_photo_1.jpg

[ZequeArgentina]

yes, that is right.
Last year was first, and this year second, on what is called the Super R Cup.
12 cars, all built by Barattero (one of STI developer agents).
It is based on the 4wd non turbo Imprezza (160 cv on original base, some 180 cv n rally format, some say closer to 190cv).

It is full group N regulations with a little modifications (eg, a special air filter, using the turbo version intercoller air entrance

[OldF]

ZequeArgentina


Do you know the weight of these Super R Cup cars? Is there a minimum weight for them?

[urabus-denoS2000]

If it isnt very heawy,its definately a dominator in the N3 class (because of the 4wd).
It may be a good base for an S2000 car,although I wouldnt like that to happen because all of those non-full factory cars die or stay within one or two country and never go international.
I

[urabus-denoS2000]

I would like the future Subaru S2000 to be a full factory project,like Peugeot,Abarth and Škoda.

[ZequeArgentina]

ZequeArgentina


Do you know the weight of these Super R Cup cars? Is there a minimum weight for them?

Hum, no. But I will try to get it.

[OldF]

I think that if Subaru is going into S2000 they’ll take it serious. I t would be nice to hear a boxer engine whine at 8500 rpm.

I don’t know how FIA picks the vendor of the gearbox / transmission, but why has it to be an outside vendor? Lets say if Subaru wants to manufacture the gearbox / transmission by their selves and homologate it with FIA and engage to sell it to everybody that want a longitudinally transmission. There could of course be doubt about if is it made in the in spirit of the regulations but I believe that could be solved by technical regulations (same technical implementation as the other ones, mechanical lsds etc.). Do you think this could be a solution???

[N.O.T]

Subaru won't make an s2000.......they live by selling group N cars and i doubt they want to produce a direct rival to their own car.

[LeonBrooke]

As far as I'm aware, it's been confirmed that the WRC will be based on S2000 and group N. So Subaru don't need to do anything different in order to continue - they'll still be competitive, assuming the FIA find the best way to make the cars based on S2000 equal with the cars based on group N...

[OldF]

Subaru won't make an s2000.......they live by selling group N cars and i doubt they want to produce a direct rival to their own car.

I think this thread is based on this post from the “S2000 & Group N, The future of rallying?” thread.

By MJW: The autosport article refered to earlier in the thread said that whilst Subaru has a Group N base car it is also considering an S2000 model for evaluation once the rules are announced

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=417758&highlight=subaru+s2000#post417758[/font]

A S2000 car has some advantage over a N4 car and the biggest IMO is the suspension. What I’ve seen when watching the IRC programs from Eurosport is that the S2000 cars wishbones are very long, almost to the centre of the car. N4 cars advantage is of course the turbo that gives more torque on lower revs.

As Juho Hänninen said in an interview (an article about aerodynamics of a WRC car): “If you compare a WRC car with a N-group car, the N-group car has no brakes, no suspension and it want turn into bends”. And Gardemester said that: “The hop from a S1600 (JWRC) to a WRC is smaller than the hop from N4 (PWRC) to WRC.”

[urabus-denoS2000]

Subaru won't make an s2000.......they live by selling group N cars and i doubt they want to produce a direct rival to their own car.

Yes they will make one.
They will need an S2000 in the future,because they do want to be the champs again.They will hardly become champs with an N4 based car.
I dont think that future top cars based on N4 will be competitive.I think that the FIA only said that because S2000 are currently run under the N4 class.

[PLuto]

They are working on it yet :)

[J4MIE]

Surely the decision about the standard transmission was based on costs, and guess they chose it to work with the most common design/layout on cars. I'm sure there will be a way around it though.