Well they are building Long Beach circuit

[seppefan]

On Tuesday next week, 19.2.8 Long Beach Mayor Bob Foster will help drop a concrete block into place during the first full day of construction of the 1.97-mile Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach temporary race circuit through the downtown streets of Long Beach.

Wonder who will race..

[fan-veteran]

If 20 IRL cars + another ... say... 12 CCWS cars arrange to start - that will be pretty good :) :)

[Miatanut]

If I was the construction company putting it together, I'd be wishing I hadn't taken this job.

[nanders]

If I was the construction company putting it together, I'd be wishing I hadn't taken this job.

What!? Explain.

[Chaparral66]

Because they might have to take it all down again if things don't work out between CCWS and the IRL...

[Chaparral66]

Nah, waitaminnit. The promoters are KK and GF, right? They could install ALMS or Grand Am if they wanted, or even CC Atlantics...

[bblocker68]

ALMS / Atlantics /Celebrity race would bring in a ton of people.

[Miatanut]

What!? Explain.

Because there would be a good chance I would be doing it all for free.

[Chaparral66]

Unlikely. The Amigos and TG are capable of pulling off all kinds of deals, but the people who build it - and dismantle it - still have to get paid. Try to get the construction people to build it for free and they would just as soon say, "You build it, if you think it's that easy. To them, this is just another job. They want no part of any of the politics.

[SoCalPVguy]

ALMS / Atlantics /Celebrity race would bring in a ton of people.

BB, I agree to a point, i.e. 1-Ton = 2,000-lbs, at an average of 150-# per person, that would be 13.3 people. Sounds about right for ALMS / Atlantics /Celebrity only at LB.

[Miatanut]

Unlikely. The Amigos and TG are capable of pulling off all kinds of deals, but the people who build it - and dismantle it - still have to get paid. Try to get the construction people to build it for free and they would just as soon say, "You build it, if you think it's that easy. To them, this is just another job. They want no part of any of the politics.

The fuel cell guy is still waiting for his money after jumped to the rescue last spring.

[SoCalPVguy]

The fuel cell guy is still waiting for his money after jumped to the rescue last spring.

Well I wouldn't contract with KK or CCWS for anything and expect to get paid, too many examples of stiffing out there, plus no prize money paid out either. In this case I believe the track builders are being contracted through the LB GP Committee (Grand Prix Association of Long Beach, 3000 Pacific Avenue, Long Beach, CA 90806) which (I hope) is a solvent organization and not directly by CCWS.

[Miatanut]

Well I wouldn't contract with KK or CCWS for anything and expect to get paid, too many examples of stiffing out there, plus no prize money paid out either. In this case I believe the track builders are being contracted through the LB GP Committee (Grand Prix Association of Long Beach, 3000 Pacific Avenue, Long Beach, CA 90806) which (I hope) is a solvent organization and not directly by CCWS.

Yes, it's a separate company with some of the same owners involved.

If CCWS doesn't proceed, GPALB has obligations to the City of Long Beach (cops directing traffic during set-up and such), to the contractor, to various other vendors, etc., but no income. No reason to believe they can make a deal with Tony for the next year. Tony can just do his own deal with the City. Lots of bills to pay, no income. Bankruptcy!

If the series does run, and there's a paltry number of cars, ticket sales will be way down. Guaranteed money loser. Bankruptcy!

Or, they could make good on their obligations even after losing a boatload of money. Given some of the ownership in common's approach on some other things, if I were the contractor, I'd be wishing I hadn't taken that job.

[Miatanut]

Unlikely. The Amigos and TG are capable of pulling off all kinds of deals, but the people who build it - and dismantle it - still have to get paid. Try to get the construction people to build it for free and they would just as soon say, "You build it, if you think it's that easy. To them, this is just another job. They want no part of any of the politics.

I'm sure they have a contract saying they get paid. Actually getting paid can be an entirely different thing. Saying this as a small business owner who's been there! :crazy:

[tbyars]

If CCWS doesn't proceed, GPALB has obligations to the City of Long Beach (cops directing traffic during set-up and such), to the contractor, to various other vendors, etc., but no income. No reason to believe they can make a deal with Tony for the next year. Tony can just do his own deal with the City. Lots of bills to pay, no income. Bankruptcy!

No income?

I would think, considering the history of the race, you could put together a pretty sold race weekend with the Atlantics, ALMS, the Celebrity race and the Formula D guys.

You'd probably re-arrange so that ALMS runs on Sunday afternoon, and probably throw in a couple more drifter events to fill their spot on Saturday.

Much like Surfers, the race weekend will go on and be viable, with or without CCWS.

Will they make money? Has the race weekend made money in the past? We know the last year DD owned the race, it lost $1.4M.

[Cart750hp]

Much like Surfers, the race weekend will go on and be viable, with or without CCWS.

Exactly.

Just wondering....why these fanatics thinks that Long Beach somehow is entitled to a CC race? Just a thought.

[jimispeed]

Exactly.

Just wondering....why these fanatics thinks that Long Beach somehow is entitled to a CC race? Just a thought.


Do you think it's fair for anyone to post about how Champcar doesn't really have a right to be at Long Beach?

They've been racing there for thirty years!

And, then you tag on something about how "The Fanatics" will believe that!!

You just want all of the fans who believe in what Champcar is to go away!

If you're talking about the newest owners of the Champcar series, I couldn't agree with you more!!

I've called the Champcar office, and conversed with ones that I have met through the years.

I've talked with a few in the offices of PKV as well.

They're all just waiting and watching for what's to come! That to me is BS!!


But, as far as the series is concerned, Champcar is everything I like!! I would love to see Champcar survive and thrive. The Vanderbilt Cup started it all! Please let's not forget that!

The boneheads that are running both series are much different than the history that precedes them.

The Indy 500 deserves to have what it had, and be what it was!!

Champcar, and the Vanderbilt Cup deserves to have what it had, and be what it was!!

Sorry I ranted, I guess it was that little thing about whether Champcar deserved to be at Long Beach!

Don't let history fall. It belongs with both Indy, and Champcar. And, it belongs with the fans forever.......

[Cart750hp]

Do you think it's fair for anyone to post about how Champcar doesn't really have a right to be at Long Beach?

They've been racing there for thirty years!

CC had the contract, they had the right. But telling me Long Beach couldn't go on without CC is a pure fanatic thinking....a BS. I told you, I could smell a BS from a mile. So what if they've been there 30 years? It has to end sometime and CC's time is up. I'm pretty sure that whichever series runs in Long Beach, it'll be another successful one.


And, then you tag on something about how "The Fanatics" will believe that!!

You just want all of the fans who believe in what Champcar is to go away!

I believed CC had a good product and I was once a pure CC fan. But never I was a bias person or crooked thinking attacking TG and IRL everytime a discussion comes. That's our difference. I stopped supporting CC since 2005 when more BS are coming out of CC office than TG's office.


If you're talking about the newest owners of the Champcar series, I couldn't agree with you more!!

I've called the Champcar office, and conversed with ones that I have met through the years.

I've talked with a few in the offices of PKV as well.

They're all just waiting and watching for what's to come! That to me is BS!!

Ah, so now you see what's wrong with CC. The BS from the owners affected the series so much and it totally changed the series' image. The racing was still there but because the executives kept renting unheard of drivers, they didn't care about the product that they sell, anymore. That was the point when I understood that the owners really in for quick buck and once I have thought they will sell this series to IRL or other series. Voila! CC, at the time when all these BS, was done. It was just a matter of time to end it.



But, as far as the series is concerned, Champcar is everything I like!! I would love to see Champcar survive and thrive. The Vanderbilt Cup started it all! Please let's not forget that!

Sure, but obviously there were nothing much done to keep it the way it should be.


The boneheads that are running both series are much different than the history that precedes them.

The Indy 500 deserves to have what it had, and be what it was!!

Champcar, and the Vanderbilt Cup deserves to have what it had, and be what it was!!

Sorry I ranted, I guess it was that little thing about whether Champcar deserved to be at Long Beach!

Don't let history fall. It belongs with both Indy, and Champcar. And, it belongs with the fans forever.......

CC will be in history, no doubt. The good races they put, the bad fights and the controversial stuff. All about sport. Sad to see it go but I'm pretty sure there'll be good or even better after the mess is through.

[jimispeed]

CC had the contract, they had the right. But telling me Long Beach couldn't go on without CC is a pure fanatic thinking....a BS. I told you, I could smell a BS from a mile. So what if they've been there 30 years? It has to end sometime and CC's time is up. I'm pretty sure that whichever series runs in Long Beach, it'll be another successful one.



I believed CC had a good product and I was once a pure CC fan. But never I was a bias person or crooked thinking attacking TG and IRL everytime a discussion comes. That's our difference. I stopped supporting CC since 2005 when more BS are coming out of CC office than TG's office.



Ah, so now you see what's wrong with CC. The BS from the owners affected the series so much and it totally changed the series' image. The racing was still there but because the executives kept renting unheard of drivers, they didn't care about the product that they sell, anymore. That was the point when I understood that the owners really in for quick buck and once I have thought they will sell this series to IRL or other series. Voila! CC, at the time when all these BS, was done. It was just a matter of time to end it.




Sure, but obviously there were nothing much done to keep it the way it should be.



CC will be in history, no doubt. The good races they put, the bad fights and the controversial stuff. All about sport. Sad to see it go but I'm pretty sure there'll be good or even better after the mess is through.


Thank you Cart!!

Please read my thread "Reaching out to Tony George", and tell me what you think.....

[garyshell]

CC had the contract, they had the right. But telling me Long Beach couldn't go on without CC is a pure fanatic thinking....a BS. I told you, I could smell a BS from a mile. So what if they've been there 30 years? It has to end sometime and CC's time is up. I'm pretty sure that whichever series runs in Long Beach, it'll be another successful one.

Cart750, is it possible just once that you could post a reply without all the freakin' vitriol or venom? Jesus man, we are about to join the two fan bases together and you continue to do everything you can to make that difficult. Chill out. Just go back and re-read your reply. Do you really have to accuse someone of BS because their opinion or interpretation is different? You can disagree without the damn alienation. Give it a rest already. Especially now!

Gary

[cartpix]

Do you think it's fair for anyone to post about how Champcar doesn't really have a right to be at Long Beach?

They've been racing there for thirty years!



CART started racing, in Long Beach, in 1984. Before that, it was an F1 race. Champ Car has been running, in Long Beach, since 2004.


But, as far as the series is concerned, Champcar is everything I like!! I would love to see Champcar survive and thrive. The Vanderbilt Cup started it all! Please let's not forget that!



So now you're saying, because Champ Car bought the Vanderbilt Cup, they purchased all the history, that goes with it? Are you saying George Heath was a Champ Car driver? Please...

Jeff

[TU Homer]

CART started racing, in Long Beach, in 1984. Before that, it was an F1 race. Champ Car has been running, in Long Beach, since 2004.



So now you're saying, because Champ Car bought the Vanderbilt Cup, they purchased all the history, that goes with it? Are you saying George Heath was a Champ Car driver? Please...

Jeff

To be clear, you don't relate the Vanderbilt Cup or Long Beach history with champ cars? That name and type of car has been around long before ChampCar LLC (or whatever the legal name). It's not a "new thing".

http://www.amazon.com/Technology-Champ-Car-Autocourse-Technical/dp/1874557926/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1203450560&sr=1-5
Published in 1998, clearly before CCWS.

http://www.amazon.com/World-Racing-Champ-Sylvia-Wilkinson/dp/0516447114/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1203450674&sr=1-10
Published in 1982, clearly before CCWS.

I would say NASCAR is tied to moonshining in the same way the legacy Vandy Cup is tied to CCWS. My company went through a couple of BKs and ownership changes, and we still relate the history of the company to our current incarnation.



-TU