Rally Jordan

[GruppoB]

Oil Money + Government full support.


I suppose this will be the most competitor friendly and possibly most amazing rally on the calender. Hope theirs some stages through epic deserts give us a taste of safari back.

[PLuto]

Oil Money + Government full support.


I suppose this will be the most competitor friendly and possibly most amazing rally on the calender. Hope theirs some stages through epic deserts give us a taste of safari back.

But maybe this rally won't be... http://www.autosport.cz/clanek.php?cl=5940

[WRCfan]

Govt support is great if it is to go through although going to play in the sand to try and recreate the Safari this is boring in my opinion. I loved the Safari as it had a character all of it's own. However rallying in Jordan doesn't really make me think rally, more I imagine Baja VW beetles with nitro shocks and Chevy off-road trucks...

Haven't seen much of conditions and so on yet however as always, give everything a try once, who knows, if it really doesn't turn out they don't have to go back...

[GigiGalliNo1]

Well , Australia lost its government support...

[WRCfan]

Lucky NZ is so close for WRC huh! haha

[GigiGalliNo1]

lol

[DonJippo]

But maybe this rally won't be... http://www.autosport.cz/clanek.php?cl=5940

What's in it? I've read that teams are not pleased about going to Jordan but is there something more in this?

[bowler]

Oil Money + Government full support.


I suppose this will be the most competitor friendly and possibly most amazing rally on the calender. Hope theirs some stages through epic deserts give us a taste of safari back.

there is no oil in Jordan.

[MJW]

What's in it? I've read that teams are not pleased about going to Jordan but is there something more in this?
There is something from Citroen boss that as the French foreign affairs section / intelligence reporting agencies etc have raised the status of the threat level for visitors to Jordan. OK nowhere as serious as the situation in Mauritania for Dakar, but Quensil said that if anyone from Citroen team felt that they did not want to risk their lives by going to Jordan, as a company they would have to respect that decision. I also new a few Brits who some years ago when Rally Jordan was first talked about said that they wouldn't be relaxed about going.

[PLuto]

What's in it? I've read that teams are not pleased about going to Jordan but is there something more in this?

There is written, that teams and people around WRC are talking about cancelling due to safety reasons. But true is, that most of teams dont want to go there...

[Camelopard]

Jordan isn't all deserts, if you look at google maps and the like you will see that where the rally is being run is very close to the Dead Sea and Amman along roads and not in the middle of sand dunes.
Jordan gets tens of thousands of tourists a year, have you ever heard of Petra? Nearby Syria and Lebanon maybe be a different story and definately the Occupied Territories,

If you only read and believed everything bad about a country you would never leave home!

If Jordan is under threat from terrorism then Turkey should be cancelled as well.

Anyone else going to Jordan, I certainly am!

[Roy]

Jordan isn't all deserts, if you look at google maps and the like you will see that where the rally is being run is very close to the Dead Sea and Amman along roads and not in the middle of sand dunes.
Jordan gets tens of thousands of tourists a year, have you ever heard of Petra? Nearby Syria and Lebanon maybe be a different story and definately the Occupied Territories,

If you only read and believed everything bad about a country you would never leave home!

If Jordan is under threat from terrorism then Turkey should be cancelled as well.

Anyone else going to Jordan, I certainly am!


Team members afraid to go :confused: I don't believe it, sorry.
Jordan is a very tourist country, after Israel the most western of the Middle East. I go for holiday with my girlfriend (she lived for one year in Jordan). after the rally. The travel was planned before the rally. A friend of my married Friday :\
So I stay friday in Holland and fly Saterday to Amman. Sunday I go to maybe one stage and I want to see the podium.

We travel 2 weeks in Jordan and the 'Holy land'. See you there!

[Camelopard]

Team members afraid to go :confused: I don't believe it, sorry.
Jordan is a very tourist country, after Israel the most western of the Middle East. I go for holiday with my girlfriend (she lived for one year in Jordan). after the rally. The travel was planned before the rally. A friend of my married Friday :\
So I stay friday in Holland and fly Saterday to Amman. Sunday I go to maybe one stage and I want to see the podium.

We travel 2 weeks in Jordan and the 'Holy land'. See you there!

Quite possibly, we will also head up to Syria to see some of the Crusader Castles, I would like to cross into Lebanon and go to the Baekka Valley, but we will see.

I was also thinking that maybe Spain should be cancelled, possibility of getting killed by an ETA bomb! Maybe Corsica should go as well, those pesky separatists have been quiet of late, but you never know when they will start kidnapping and killing people again :mad: .

What about Argentina, weren't some team members and journalists robbed at gun point in a restaurant a few years ago?

[MJW]

I hear what you are saying, cynically I think it is more to do with the miniscule car purchasing market in Jordan - secuirty is a convenient distraction. There are growing rumours that some manufacturers are not keen on going to Jordan, probably for their own reasons.

[MJW]

In the end it was only SWRT who sent one team to recce the trail event last year. Others had planned to go but failed to turn up last minute.

[Tomi]

there is no oil in Jordan.

The rally teams normally bring their own oil with them so thats no problem.

[ste898]

Rally Jordan has NO place in WRC rallying.....it is a desert racing championship event thats all!!!

[cosmicpanda]

I can't wait, then :D

[jso1985]

I hear what you are saying, cynically I think it is more to do with the miniscule car purchasing market in Jordan - secuirty is a convenient distraction. There are growing rumours that some manufacturers are not keen on going to Jordan, probably for their own reasons.

but the whole middle eastern car market ain't that small


Rally Jordan has NO place in WRC rallying.....it is a desert racing championship event thats all!!!

have you even read the posts above? the rally will not be run on dunes or in the middle of the desert

[L5->R5/CR]

but the whole middle eastern car market ain't that small



have you even read the posts above? the rally will not be run on dunes or in the middle of the desert

And if it were in the desert why not?

As long as it isn't another slow, hot, rocky rally, I am all for it.

We need more variety and a rally that looks like it is being run on Mars might not be such a bad idea...

[WRCfan]

For once I agree with Ste, there is better places to go rallying than Jordan.

[Camelopard]

For once I agree with Ste, there is better places to go rallying than Jordan.

Well don't hold back, I'm waiting to hear what better places there are :) .

[cosmicpanda]

There's a stage called "Baptism Site" in the route, at least the one I checked a few days ago - they seem to be changing it a bit every few weeks.

I suppose, then, that that would be a stage close to the place Jesus was baptised in the River Jordan?

Seems a bit surreal, combining WRC and religion. I bet ISC's happy.

I also noted in the rally guide how they listed Jesus as being a prophet, which is perhaps a smallish detail but still, I gather, quite important to the differences between Islam, Judaism and Christianity.

[Camelopard]

Damn, better cancel Mexico now:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/02/16/2164444.htm?section=justin

[StevieWonder]

There's a stage called "Baptism Site" in the route, at least the one I checked a few days ago - they seem to be changing it a bit every few weeks.

I suppose, then, that that would be a stage close to the place Jesus was baptised in the River Jordan?

Seems a bit surreal, combining WRC and religion. I bet ISC's happy.

I also noted in the rally guide how they listed Jesus as being a prophet, which is perhaps a smallish detail but still, I gather, quite important to the differences between Islam, Judaism and Christianity.

where do you have this information from (stage "baptism site") ???

[cosmicpanda]

http://www.jordanrally.com/static/pdf/itinerary.pdf

SS12 and 16.

[Fischer]

Why Jordan? The place is not even close to spectacular for rallying and it's a country where torture of prisoners is a daily practice.

[ProRally]

Why Jordan? The place is not even close to spectacular for rallying and it's a country where torture of prisoners is a daily practice.

Same goes for USA ....

[GigiGalliNo1]

Why Jordan? The place is not even close to spectacular for rallying and it's a country where torture of prisoners is a daily practice.

umm...... Jordan is not anywhere near where they would torture people....

guantanamo bay is near cuba, and iraq is far away from Jordan, your getting your locations/map wrong.... ummmmm and people in Dubai are bad right?...

[pino]

Please let's keep politics off this forum...thanks :)

[ste898]

why could'nt they ungrade Lebannon rally to WRC status....that was a great event a few years ago till they banned WRC's!!!

[ste898]

try again.......why could'nt they upgrade Lebannon rally to WRC status....that was a great event a few years ago till they banned WRC's!!!

[Camelopard]

Why Jordan? The place is not even close to spectacular for rallying.....................

So you have been there and know this for a fact?

[DonJippo]

So you have been there and know this for a fact?

I'm intrested to know what is the history of rallying in Jordan, does anyoe have more knowledge of it?

[Tomi]

I'm intrested to know what is the history of rallying in Jordan, does anyoe have more knowledge of it?

I remember that the late king Hussein was a big rallyfan I think he drove some himself too, once when he was here visiting some of the drivers took him for a ride, i think it was Juha, thats the history in short ;)

[GigiGalliNo1]

I like Jordan the PWRC stle rally it self, followed it and watched it last year! Photos looked amazing too as well as video, what about something tropical.... in the jungles of South America? Or as we know, it'll be going back to Indonesia? :D

[ShiftingGears]

Or as we know, it'll be going back to Indonesia? :D

I wish...

But Indonesia isn't a haven of political stability. WRC won't go back there for quite a while.

[MJW]

I remember that the late king Hussein was a big rallyfan I think he drove some himself too, once when he was here visiting some of the drivers took him for a ride, i think it was Juha, thats the history in short ;)

I think the current king was also a rally driver on some events in the 1990's - his co driver was Phil Mills. Rumour has it they were the only car in the rally allowed to carry a gun, to allow the driver to protect himself.

[Camelopard]

I wish...

But Indonesia isn't a haven of political stability. WRC won't go back there for quite a while.

Indonesia is the last country in South East Asia that deserves a WRC event.

[alleskids]

I wish...

But Indonesia isn't a haven of political stability. WRC won't go back there for quite a while.

Rally Indonesia is on the WRC calandre for 2010, together with Rusia and Bulgaria as new rallies.

[ShiftingGears]

Rally Indonesia is on the WRC calandre for 2010, together with Rusia and Bulgaria as new rallies.

I found that one surprising. I'm hoping due to its tropical location that it's as muddy as Portugal 2001. It's certainly unique.

[Tomi]

Rally Indonesia is on the WRC calandre for 2010, together with Rusia and Bulgaria as new rallies.

All 3 has never offered anything to rally on top level, we have here a saying that if you carry water to a dry well it wont stay there, i feel a little same about the rotating system, are they doing this to attract tourists or because of the sport, my guess is the first one.

[ShiftingGears]

All 3 has never offered anything to rally on top level, we have here a saying that if you carry water to a dry well it wont stay there, i feel a little same about the rotating system, are they doing this to attract tourists or because of the sport, my guess is the first one.

Indonesia was on the WRC calendar in '96 and '97 and that was a unique event.

[Tomi]

Indonesia was on the WRC calendar in '96 and '97 and that seemed like a unique event.

i know it was.

[ShiftingGears]

i know it was.

What makes you think it has nothing to offer, then?

[Tomi]

What makes you think it has nothing to offer, then?

What i mean is that now they get countries in to rally that maybe arrange 1-2 times and then they want to stop for what ever reasons, countries like Ireland I understand that they take to the championship because there is a rally culture, even they dont have international level drivers the sport is quite popular there, same goes for Norway too, they are trying to build somekind of rally culture so its good to support them by giving them a rally.
What has Indonesia to offer? Why take a rally to there?

[ShiftingGears]

What has Indonesia to offer?

The way I see it, is that its a unique rally offering different challenges than your average rally (unique tropical conditions, unlike any other WRC event).

Why take a rally to there?

The same reason why you'd run cars through African desert, without any fans nearby to witness. Driver challenge.

[Duby]

the Jordan rally is based near the Dead sea for years .
it was a part from the Middle-east rally championship and has a lot of back-up from the royal family of Jordan.

the Jordan rally is a good addition to the WRC as it is a round in one part of the world that was not visit by the rally circus.
it is a very rough gravel rally sand and rocks .
the Dead sea stages are the lowest in the world !!!

i am from Israel and as Jordan is in our border i am going there this year for the WRC round, alltough we can watch some stages near the border from "our" side as well.


duby

[Tomi]

The way I see it, is that its a unique rally offering different challenges than your average rally (unique tropical conditions, unlike any other WRC event).


The same reason why you'd run cars through African desert, without any fans nearby to witness. Driver challenge.

Thats what i tought, there is not a single world rally doing that either.

[DonJippo]

The way I see it, is that its a unique rally offering different challenges than your average rally (unique tropical conditions, unlike any other WRC event).

The same reason why you'd run cars through African desert, without any fans nearby to witness. Driver challenge.

Don't think that Tomi has anything against different challengies like tropical conditions or African desert. The issue is that many countries are intrested to organise a motorsport event for other reasons than the motorsport itself and often this reason has a political motive and as we know politicians come and go so there is no quarantees for continuity in these cases.

[Tomi]

Don't think that Tomi has anything against different challengies like tropical conditions or African desert. The issue is that many countries are intrested to organise a motorsport event for other reasons than the motorsport itself and often this reason has a political motive and as we know politicians come and go so there is no quarantees for continuity in these cases.

And also to courage those who are actually doing something for the sport, like Estonia, Belgium, Czech to mention, all this countries works hard to get drivers to the top and in my opinion would deserve a WRC event.

[L5->R5/CR]

And also to courage those who are actually doing something for the sport, like Estonia, Belgium, Czech to mention, all this countries works hard to get drivers to the top and in my opinion would deserve a WRC event.



But what would Estonia, Belgium, or the Czech Republic offer that isn't already represented in the championship?

I support Rally Indonesia because it adds something that isn't in the championship, tropical rallying and lots and lots of mud. One of the key appeals of rally driving for me, and I think for a lot of people as well, is the fact that rally drivers have to be masters of driving in all conditions and circumstances. That means slow, gravelly, rocky events, fast flowing forest events, twisty and technical gravel stages, muddy and rainy stages, foggy stages, high altitude stages, snow stages, icy stages , tarmac stages and various combinations of all of the above mentioned conditions.

I understand the desire to take the sport where it will be appreciated and supported for many years to come but at the same time it is important to take the sport to places that truly offer new and or unique challenges and conditions as well.

[Tomi]

But what would Estonia, Belgium, or the Czech Republic offer that isn't already represented in the championship?

They offer a good chance for their young drivers to show their skills in a WRC event, also in those countries is a wide fan base wich gives a better chance for continiuty, Im sure they would have a much better entry as well.

[DonJippo]

They offer a good chance for their young drivers to show their skills in a WRC event, also in those countries is a wide fan base wich gives a better chance for continiuty, Im sure they would have a much better entry as well.

Well you know for the every day TV fan that does not make any difference, they are anyway going to see only the top 8 plus Wilson Jr. :rolleyes:

[jparker]

They offer a good chance for their young drivers to show their skills in a WRC event, also in those countries is a wide fan base wich gives a better chance for continiuty, Im sure they would have a much better entry as well.

You are right. Based on your loginc, I think all WRC events should be based in Finland.

[Tomi]

Well you know for the every day TV fan that does not make any difference, they are anyway going to see only the top 8 plus Wilson Jr. :rolleyes:

Yep, I know that well, in those countries I mentioned are a few quite promising drivers, their carreer might get a boost if they had a home event and their fed would see it maybe as a thanks for well done work for the sport and continiuing the good work.
What comes to different conditions in every rally the conditions are different even now, and to find out the best driver works best if the rallies are done on drivable roads not by mud or stones those conditions are less even and the "luck" factor becomes too big.

[Tomi]

You are right. Based on your loginc, I think all WRC events should be based in Finland.

I dont know about that, for me it's ok that the icehockey worldchampionships is in Canada this year, but if it would be in Zambia I dont think it would be a good idea.

[jso1985]

And also to courage those who are actually doing something for the sport, like Estonia, Belgium, Czech to mention, all this countries works hard to get drivers to the top and in my opinion would deserve a WRC event.

But is actually the country doing the hard work? or is it just the driver and the people around him?

The fact that Indonesia or other countries don't have any driver at the top level, doesn't mean the country can't have a big fanbase.

[jparker]

I dont know about that, for me it's ok that the icehockey worldchampionships is in Canada this year, but if it would be in Zambia I dont think it would be a good idea.

Fair enough, but I guess that's why we have an Winter Olympics and Summer Olympics. Probably the same should happen in rallying.

[Tomi]

But is actually the country doing the hard work? or is it just the driver and the people around him?

The fact that Indonesia or other countries don't have any driver at the top level, doesn't mean the country can't have a big fanbase.

Federations in the countries, and the drivers and people around them, sponsors etc. Sometimes countries too.
About the level of local drivers and the fans of the rally indonesia i tell you later after asking a guy who has been driving there.

[cosmicpanda]

I think Jordan and Indonesia are good additions to the championship if purely because of their geographical position. How can you call it a world championship if all the events are based in Europe? This year we have Mexico, Argentina, New Zealand, Japan and Jordan outside of Europe, a ratio of 2 European events to every overseas event.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Cz would be nice no? Tarmac? Brick-type roads like Poland?

[L5->R5/CR]

They offer a good chance for their young drivers to show their skills in a WRC event, also in those countries is a wide fan base wich gives a better chance for continiuty, Im sure they would have a much better entry as well.



Continuity only matters for drivers so they can perfect their notes that they don't make many mistakes and for the TV fans.


I don't think rating a rallies suitability in the WRC on its ability to support "up and coming" European drivers is very fair. Any European driver has the ability to select any reasonably large number of events to "show" what they have to offer. And as for bigger entries, this only matters if you are going to the event, if the entry isn't big enough, don't go, you're in Europe, you have hundreds of good rallies close to you every year.

Estonia and Belgium are very unlikely to offer anything that isn't already represented. The Czech Republic would put in a nice Eastern European presence but it would be highly dependent on the rally as to whether or not it would offer anything special.

And why do we have to limit rally drivers to driving on "drivable" road? Why not mud, snow, ice or some other surface? Should rally drivers just be masters of driving really fast on good surfaces that aren't race tracks or should they be masters of driving very quickly in all conditions? Thank god we can almost be certain that their won't be a real WRC Safari Rally since those roads were not always "drivable".

I just don't understand the desire to add more indistinguishable European events to a championship with so many similar events when there are events out there that offer unique and different challenges.

[GigiGalliNo1]

I want to watch the old Portugal rounds from the WRC :D

[Tomi]

Continuity only matters for drivers so they can perfect their notes that they don't make many mistakes and for the TV fans.

Not really true, continuity means better working organisation and better arranged events for the fans and teams as well.

[L5->R5/CR]

Not really true, continuity means better working organisation and better arranged events for the fans and teams as well.



We are talking about two different types of continuity.

I am talking about continuity in the events in the championship. You are talking about continuity in how the event is ran. There can be arguments made both ways, however, I will offer that the continuity in event operations is as much dependent on the organizers as anything, especially, what championship the event is or isn't in...

[sal]

I never thought I would say it but I hope the Jordan rally is a success and passes off without any attempt be it terrorist of political to derail it. The middle east has been after a round of the WRC for a long time and this event looks far more suitabal than some of the other M East events (Lebanon excepted) that have been surrounded in controversy with crews taking bit short cuts in the past etc. Bearing in mind Indonesia's political climate and the problems with non competitive cars on the stages they had the last time they had a round was held there Jordan seems a no brainer in comparison.

As for Russia and Bulgaria I'm assuming they will have been properly monitored before 2010 as I thought they had to run a sucessful event before being added to the calendar and the 07 IRC event in Russia was hardly a glowing success...

[Roy]

I don't see why some say there would be a terrorism attack on this rally event, because it is in Jordan. Why? Because in Jordan lived many Muslims? Ridicule! Do you really think all Muslims blow their head off like this? :grenade:
I think driving in Corsica is more dangerous with national extremist who want an independent island then Jordan with some crazy rally people who support the Abu Dhabi car.

The rally is held in a nice area. No dessert like the sahara or what Saoedi Arabia has. It is sand and rocks like in Mexico. What I see on the pics of last year at the website jordanrally.com it will be a little bit green and a nice point of view on some hills.
If you don't have a friend who married I tell you: Go to that rally! It would be amazing. It would be an endures race of the car and tires with that rough roads. Great! I see you near the finishpodium!

[sal]

[quote="Roy"]IJordan with some crazy rally people who support the Abu Dhabi car.

QUOTE]


WTF?! One Arab driver who is there for the amount of money his country is putting M Sports way does not some crazy rally people make!

Think you have to look at the bigger picture here. There would be no talk of concern from teams like Citroen if their government had not put Jordan on the list of countries that they were advising their countrymen not to visit. Anyone who thinks sporting events are immune from terrorist threats obviously forgets what has happened to the Olympics in the past. I would expect the extremist terror threat to be stronger in Malaysia/Indonesia anyway.

Jordan as I said has better stages than a lot of other Arab states so good luck to them.

[Roy]

WTF?! One Arab driver who is there for the amount of money his country is putting M Sports way does not some crazy rally people make!


Well, the most of what I say about that issue was a joke. But I think some Arab like to see another Arab in a WRCar. It makes them proud to see one of them nearby.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Well, the most of what I say about that issue was a joke. But I think some Arab like to see another Arab in a WRCar. It makes them proud to see one of them nearby.

Exactly!!