Adding acetone to your fuel for improved mpg?

[Zico]

I saw this thread on a toyota forum about the widely circulating claims on the net of how the addition of a small amount of pure acetone to your petrol or diesel can improve your power, response and mpg by reducing surface tension, improving fuel evaporation, ie increasing the fuels octane rating.

Aparantly it has an identical effect to the fuel companys who increase the octane in their fuel by addition of alcohol. While I can see the logic in it, I've never been one to advocate DIY fuel concoctions without the necessary research and thorough testing.


http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=44575&hl=acetone&st=0


Quote - " I've just completed 50,000 miles from new in my phase-1 D-4D. Every tank in my D-4D had 40ML acetone added each fillup.

Total reliability, not one issue ever. First MOT and the mechanic reported the particulates were the lowest he had had from a diesel. I didn't mention the acetone to him so that was a pleasing comment.

Diesel engines have one bad thing, they emit HIGHLY dangerous particles which cause a provable number of heart attacks in otherwise healthy people each year -my apologies for not having the medical link to this at hand I will try and find it. Anyway these particulates are suspected to be from unburnt parts of the fuel. Acetone will increase the effective octane and increase the efficiency of the burn (this is where the power/torgue gains come from), and I will bet my house the number of emitted particulates are reduced on acetone as a result (you will NOT get a diesel to smoke on the right acetone mix).

Fuel economy is hard to judge as I always use the extra power from day-one and would be called 'lead-footed'.

I read an earlier post about someone dissing acetone after adding huge amounts... don't be a clown, the original post made it abundantly clear, no more than 45-50ML per 45L tank. How rich to call lack of results a 'crock of ****' when they couldn't even follow an instruction.

45ML in a 45000ML tank is too dilute to have any deleterious effects on rubber or silicone so stop worrying about that. I had a huge 10% mix of diesel/acetone in a metal tin soaking some fuel-line hose, some premium silicone hose (ex aquarium) and automotive rubber (part of a rubber gaiter) and after 3 months in a warm shed this summer showed no stress or pliability worries. A ten percent mix is huge, thats one-part in ten not the 1 part in one THOUSAND as is recommended.

I agree with an earlier post that acetone should be added by law at the pumps; it reduces emissions (which new data shows can be cardiac lethal) and it is environmentally sound (more economy). The extra power is simply a cherry on the cake.

It will not be law as even a 10% reduction in the amount of fuel we would need to buy for our traveling would be billions lost by Big Oil, who are not gonna let that happen anytime soon.

Sorry about my long post. I am just fed-up with some of the carping about this issue I have found on these forums, especially the one suggesting us acetone advocates are trying to work some kind of scam because we have '5 or less' posts. CID material that poster lol"



Your thoughts on the subject?

[Magnus]

Very interesting! But shouldn´t fuels-manus be aware of this, after all they do add quite a lot of different stuff and it would be very surprising indeed if they had not been experimenting with aceton.

[Daniel]

BUSTED!

http://kwc.org/mythbusters/2006/05/exploding_trousers_great_gas_conspiracy.html

I personally think we should let FUEL companies work on fuel and keep to driving cars rather than adding random crap to our fuel and then when we drive more gently because we're aching to get 1mpg more from our fuel we get data that suits us.

[trumperZ06]

:dozey: Adding acetone to pump gas increases the octane allowing you to advance timing. This will add a few ponies to your rw horsepower... but doesn't increase fuel milage significantly.

Now if you rework your engine/increase compression ratio... to take advantge of the higher octane... you MIGHT see a worthwhile increase in milage.

[Zico]

Very interesting! But shouldn´t fuels-manus be aware of this, after all they do add quite a lot of different stuff and it would be very surprising indeed if they had not been experimenting with aceton.

Apparantly they are aware of this.. the higher octane fuels do have alcohol or other types of additives added to have the same effect. I believe acetone is used as a substitute by the DIY'ers due to its availability to consumers in 100% pure form unlike 100% alcohol which would usually have nasty stuff added to stop it being abused. Thats my understanding of it anyway..

Daniel- I saw the mythbusters test and the online debates... many arguments to suggest that they hadnt done a thorough enough test examining all the different mixes and variables inc engine compatabilities, as TrumperZ06 says, Its a bit like the thread we had on super unleaded making a difference to some engines and not others. I dare say the fuel companies stand to loose millions if it turned out that there was an element of truth in it. I for one resent paying what is quite a substantial amount more for a better quality fuel. Im open minded on the subject, Im 100% certain my pug runs smoother and is more responsive on Super unleaded so I might just give this a try to see if there does seem to be a noticable improvement and if it does indeed increase the octane.

[Magnus]

OT: regarding mythbusters they had some interesting programs in the beginning, but nowadays it´s more show then actual mythbusting me thinks.

Most modern, esepcially supercgarged engines, have adaption with a knocksensor, thus a increase in octane may give quite a big benefit, compared to older engines wth fixed timing (centriugal/vacuum)

[Daniel]

Apparantly they are aware of this.. the higher octane fuels do have alcohol or other types of additives added to have the same effect. I believe acetone is used as a substitute by the DIY'ers due to its availability to consumers in 100% pure form unlike 100% alcohol which would usually have nasty stuff added to stop it being abused. Thats my understanding of it anyway..

Daniel- I saw the mythbusters test and the online debates... many arguments to suggest that they hadnt done a thorough enough test examining all the different mixes and variables inc engine compatabilities, as TrumperZ06 says, Its a bit like the thread we had on super unleaded making a difference to some engines and not others. I dare say the fuel companies stand to loose millions if it turned out that there was an element of truth in it. I for one resent paying what is quite a substantial amount more for a better quality fuel. Im open minded on the subject, Im 100% certain my pug runs smoother and is more responsive on Super unleaded so I might just give this a try to see if there does seem to be a noticable improvement and if it does indeed increase the octane.

Thing is the fuel companies could just charge you more for these better fuel mixes and also use less of their previous fuel which will run out one day. If Shell could charge you £50 for 40L rather than £50 for 50 I'm sure they would ;) Acetone itself is nasty stuff btw :)

[Zico]

Thing is the fuel companies could just charge you more for these better fuel mixes and also use less of their previous fuel which will run out one day. If Shell could charge you £50 for 40L rather than £50 for 50 I'm sure they would ;) Acetone itself is nasty stuff btw :)

True..

[Rollo]

We've already been through this discussion before. Increasing the octane rating if your petrol doesn't necessarily increase the mileage or the power out of the engine. Yes cars do have octane sensors in them, but unless you have a higher compression engine, then for 90% of cars an increase in octane rating does bugger all difference.

Personally I'm more likely to trust the oil companies or the car manufacturers than a rumour which I've read on the internet. Unless someone can provide proof of this from a reputable source, I'm calling bull**** and shenanigans on this theory.

[leopard]

I think we needn't have added anything to the fuel if the cars were made without such requirement.

Adding more octant to the fuel besides it may cause shorter age of exhaust system, it can leave infusion that may trouble fueling system.

[trumperZ06]

We've already been through this discussion before. Increasing the octane rating if your petrol doesn't necessarily increase the mileage or the power out of the engine. Yes cars do have octane sensors in them, but unless you have a higher compression engine, then for 90% of cars an increase in octane rating does bugger all difference.

Personally I'm more likely to trust the oil companies or the car manufacturers than a rumour which I've read on the internet. Unless someone can provide proof of this from a reputable source, I'm calling bull**** and shenanigans on this theory.

:dozey: Hhmmmm... that's kinda a.... BLANKET STATEMENT !!!

Hot Rodders for years have been adding octane boosters in order to advance the ignition timing... thereby increasing horsepower !!!

;) Adding acetone to pump gas does INCREASE it's octane. That's a FACT !!!

:) Today's high compression/performance engines ( ~ 11:1 and above), rely on the electronic Knock sensors to warn the ECU... to retard timing which also reduces horsepower. Another FACT !!!

Adding an "octane booster" such as "acetone" will delay the knock... thereby delaying the ECU from retarding ignition timing...

Resulting in an INCREASE in Horsepower !!!

That's also a ... FACT !!!

Now if you're running a low compression... Lawn Mower engine... nothing is likely to help increase it's power !!!

:D : Don'tcha... just luv... FACTS !!!

[rah]

I would be worried about other effects of acetone on the fuel system. Also note that that post on the other forum was talking about a diesel engine. Not sure of the extra octane effects there.

[Rollo]

:dozey: Hhmmmm... that's kinda a.... BLANKET STATEMENT !!!

Hot Rodders for years have been adding octane boosters in order to advance the ignition timing... thereby increasing horsepower !!!

They will also do other things to their engines which through other means will also increase the compression ratio of their engines such as supercharging as well.



;) Adding acetone to pump gas does INCREASE it's octane. That's a FACT !!!

:) Today's high compression/performance engines ( ~ 11:1 and above), rely on the electronic Knock sensors to warn the ECU... to retard timing which also reduces horsepower. Another FACT !!!

Adding an "octane booster" such as "acetone" will delay the knock... thereby delaying the ECU from retarding ignition timing...

Resulting in an INCREASE in Horsepower !!!

That's also a ... FACT !!!

Now if you're running a low compression... Lawn Mower engine... nothing is likely to help increase it's power !!!

:D : Don'tcha... just luv... FACTS !!!

In the first place, your average Joe Shopping Trolley hatchback isn't a performance vehicle and won't have a higher-compression engine fitted. Meanwhile most performance cars' manuals recommend you fill up with a higher RON petrol in the first place.
I would still follow the manufacturer's manual, or are you somehow trying to tell me that you know more than the people who built the bloody motor car?

Yes it's a BLANKET STATEMENT because it COVERS 90% of all cases - duh.

[Rollo]

As usual, snopes have an article on this subject:
http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/acetone.asp

For goodness sake, even the US Federal Trade Commission agrees with me:
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/alerts/fuelalrt.shtm

Your owner’s manual recommends the most effective octane level for your car. For most cars, the recommended gasoline is regular octane. In most cases, using a higher octane gas than the manufacturer recommends offers no benefit. Unless your engine is knocking, buying higher octane gasoline is a waste of money.

My calls of bull**** and shenanigans seem to be upheld. Shenanigans shenanigans shenanigans!

[Magnus]

Well: sc-engines with knocksensors do actually have benefit from higher octaneno. The energy difference between 95 and 98 without altering the timing is abt 1,5 percent, but can be much more with adaptioncontrol, without altering the compratio. what we want is high pressure during the combustion. High compression engines is more a question of turbulence or squish, in order to ha high rpm, nothing else.
Regarding SC-engines these have lower compression ratios then NA-engines, but obviously develop more hp/l.

[Daniel]

I would be worried about other effects of acetone on the fuel system. Also note that that post on the other forum was talking about a diesel engine. Not sure of the extra octane effects there.
That's what I would think. Plus in a diesel extra octane won't help you at all. It's a higher cetane rating that you'll want.

[Magnus]

In essence you want high volatilty in diesel, and low in gasoline. It may sound contradictive, but at the pressures that we talk abt. these are the basic important charachteristics.

[trumperZ06]

They will also do other things to their engines which through other means will also increase the compression ratio of their engines such as supercharging as well.


:p : Supercharging or turbocharging... doesn't increase the engine's compression ratio !!!

Both methods do increase the amount of air & fuel stuffed into the cylinder... which is their goal.




In the first place, your average Joe Shopping Trolley hatchback isn't a performance vehicle and won't have a higher-compression engine fitted. Meanwhile most performance cars' manuals recommend you fill up with a higher RON petrol in the first place.
I would still follow the manufacturer's manual, or are you somehow trying to tell me that you know more than the people who built the bloody motor car?


;) I'm not recommending using acetone as an additive... I am addressing the subject of this thread!!!

Yes it's a BLANKET STATEMENT because it COVERS 90% of all cases - duh.

:rolleyes: Hhmmm... agian look @ the first post...

And your point is that...

90% of the people on this web site are into driving cars with low compression....

LAWN MOWER ENGINES ???

[Zico]

Afraid Im with Magnus and Trumper on this one.. My car has a compression ratio of 10.4:1 which isnt exactly what I'd call high compression but its not far away, certainly close enough that I do notice it runs smoother, is more responsive and feels as though it might have a few extra horses or at least a slightly improved power/torque curve on 98 Ron.

If we could safely use acetone as an additive without damaging the fuel lines etc it would be an easy choice to make for people like me.

[Rollo]

Perhaps you'd like to argue with the petrol companies themselves?
http://www.shell.ca/home/content/ca-en/shell_for_motorists/carcare/about_fuels/encyclo_gasoline_octane.html


it must be noted that if the owner’s manual specifies using gasoline with an octane rating of 89 or 91, then that’s what you should use because that’s what the engine is designed and tuned for.

fuel with a higher octane rating cannot of itself deliver more power

One other exception is found in high-performance vehicles. The use of more complex computer algorithms in their engine control systems to control spark timing using one or more knock sensors, enables better performance on higher-octane fuel. Owner’s Manuals for most of these vehicles will specify use of 91 octane fuel.
Petrochemical companies spend millions on petrol research a year. Trained scientists whose job it is to develop additives I'd say are far more qualified than the general public.



And by the way:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbocharger#Design_details

Even with the benefits of intercooling, the total compression in the combustion chamber is greater than that in a naturally-aspirated engine.
So I guess you're still wrong.

And yes, 90% of people on this website and indeed the world are driving lower compression engines. Typically most engines on the road are between 8:1 and 11:1

Personally I'd rather pay for properly designed additives and follow the manufacturer's specs than try to outguess them.

[Magnus]

I quote the oil company you reffered to Rollo:
"One other exception is found in high-performance vehicles. The use of more complex computer algorithms in their engine control systems to control spark timing using one or more knock sensors, enables better performance on higher-octane fuel."
Regarding compression:As I said before NA-engines have higher C/R then SC-engines. this is because you have a larger combustion pressure in the SC-engine. If you convert your engine from NA to SC you hence need to lower your C/R.
So in short:
- Adaption can give your engine some extra power if you opt for higher octane.
- High compression engine, with high C/R, which are used in racing etc. do not have high C/R in mainly in order to benefit from a higher octanenumber, but in order to have a better swirl so that you can rev it more.
- Regarding diesel we want this fuel to ignite as quickly as possible and we measure this through the cetaneno.
- Regarding gasoline we want it to avoid autoignition for as long as possible.

[leopard]

As usual, snopes have an article on this subject:
http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/acetone.asp

For goodness sake, even the US Federal Trade Commission agrees with me:
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/alerts/fuelalrt.shtm
[/b]

"Stay within posted speed limits. Gas mileage decreases rapidly at speeds above 60 miles per hour."

good article, I only found this limitation may vary, the more conservative rules said that it shouldn't exceed 70 kph or about 45 mph (?)

This optimum speed depends on engine capacity of the car, the bigger engine has relative higher optimum speed, the new car has higher optimum speed.

[Civic]

You don't need fancy air intake "tornado devices" or snake oil fuel additives to get relatively significant gains in fuel mileage. You just need to adjust your driving style.

On long road trips with friends I can milk out almost 100 miles more from a full tank of gas than any of my friends.

[leopard]

You didn't tell that they use the same civic. You can't compare civic to a Benz :)

[Easy Drifter]

We used to add acetone to methanol fuel to make it easier to fire in cold weather. It is also a very efficient degreaser that will not leave a residue. Dries your skin like mad too. It is the active ingredient in silicone caulking that when exposed to air allows silicone to dry. Very high evaporaation rate. Vinegar with your fries , sir?

[Rollo]

It is also a very efficient degreaser that will not leave a residue. Dries your skin like mad too. It is the active ingredient in silicone caulking that when exposed to air allows silicone to dry. Very high evaporaation rate.

Based on this, would it be likely to strip out the lubricants that are supposed to be in the engine?

[Easy Drifter]

Yes, but the very small percentages used would do little harm. Methanol, by the way attacks rubber (not neoprene) and aluminum. We had drain petcocks in the bottom of our Webers so the fuel wouldn't sit there. You also had to run Castrol R (lovely smell) or a synthetic oil as Methanol will not mix with a mineral oil. I do not know if Ethanol is the same but some people using small two stroke engines (chain saws) had problems with fuel containing Ethanol.